Discussion in 'History' started by LionHearted, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. LionHearted Registered Senior Member

    I am trying to understand Hitler's motivation for the Holocaust and the motivation that any anti-Semite would have. I believe that in all cases you should hear the arguments of both sides. I have found several arguments in favor of anti-Semitism. What are some of the major arguments opposed to Hitler and anti-Semitism especially in the context of the two world wars?
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement

    to hide all adverts.
  3. Jerrek Registered Senior Member

    Two fold:

    First, Hitler was a firm believe in the Aryan race (white people for most part). Although he didn't have anything against other people as is, he did believe that Europe was for the white man and that all others need to be "cleansed." I would probably think after that he would have expanded and moved on to more parts of the world.

    Now Jews are not white people. They are Semites. Combined with the fact that the Jews have this cute habit of controlling large companies, Hitler started to dislike them. You can't be a dictator if the banks belong to the Jews. So, at first he told them to get out. When other nations refused to let them in, he started killing them. First a little, and then en masse.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement

    to hide all adverts.
  5. Xev Registered Senior Member

    You're obviously not very well read on the subject. Hitler very much believed that all races besides the Aryan were inferiour - that is, he did have "something against other people as is". Read My Struggle.

    Umm, Jews are white. They are not caucasions, but then again, nobody really is.

    Actually, the Jews were rather powerless during Hitler's rise in popularity. They had money, but no real influence. Read Arendt.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement

    to hide all adverts.
  7. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    I disagree. Because, the pro-racism argument is ludicrous in itself.

    And these are....?

    The fundamental problem with even the concept of racism is that it has no backbone. Hitler needed someone to turn into a public enemy, to turn into the cause of every problem. For a great deal of his life he had held a hate for jews, and any other "non-aryans." He exploited this facet of the mob psyche, and together, with other accomplishments, he turned Germany into the economic war-machine that it always has been (remember, the Romans never conquered it). The times in Germany were ripe for a dictator to take control. There was poverty, unemployment, hundreds of different political parties. Hitler blamed the Jews for this, even though the claim had, as previously stated, no backbone. Through his amazing speech-making-ability, Hitler was able to sway the masses.
  8. Xev Registered Senior Member

    My grandmother was Jewish and I only have one ball?
  9. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Awake barely an hour and I find that one of my favorite characters on sciforums is not who he says he is [Xev]! How appaling!

    btw, you never commented on my dreams vs reality justice vs injustice philo thread. I had hoped that it would have garnered more replies, I mean, I mentioned the idea in class and in ten minutes everyone there was shouting at me. They were attacking the foundation, but not the concept, that humans prefer injustice, and only in the dream world can they experience perfect injustice...
  10. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

    hey LionHearted , go read his book Mein Kampf

    for the most part ? He believed the blue-eyed blond-haired aryan to be the descendant of the Norish God Thor and the lost tribe of Atlantis . But this could be Himmler-propaganda ofcourse , his book is much more trustworthy material .

    Yes he did , he believd race and soul to be related , thus a non aryan would not have as a soul as an aryan has . Compare it to different species , as cats and dogs .

    Ur not documented well r u ?
    Judaism is a religion , and if u want to discuss the semitic heritage of modern day Ashkenazim jews (90%) , u will end up at the mid-ages where the Khazaric tribes of Turkic descend , who converted to judaism .
    Its funny how Hitler had no clue of such , as he mentiones anti-semitism in his book . Interesting to know that Anti-Semite Hitler hardly killed any semites in ww2 .

    Actually Hitler's reasoning was structurally like this yes , the controll the jews had over the newspaper/the political social-democrats(who ruled at that time in Austria) and ofcourse the banks/gold/diamonds . But the thing that did it for Hitler is quite stupid , whitch is the Theatre . Hitler loved the Theatre , and he couldnt stand the bad plays going on there . When he started investigating who's theatre and plays it actually was (by researching on the names displayed) , he discovered it was 100% jewish disgusted him so much he turned into hating these people . Its all written in his book , go read it .

    He was pretty much unemplyed , so this is pretty foolish

    There are idications and even evidence(at minimal) for Zionist collaborations . U should know Hitler didnt want them out at all , because he didnt believe the Jews having their own state would make them all go there , so it seemed useless to him .(as he describes in his book , whitch was writtenm long before he had something to say) . He thought the Jews wanted their own state so they have a spot where they can controll all their bussiness all over the world , not to go settle there en-masse .

    They r turks , wheither they are considered to be caucasion is a different discussion .

    Excuse me ? This sounds pretty incredible from a person who refers to Mein Kampf .

    Racism is a ridiciouless word invented by the rascist white man , as is ant-semitical invented by the anti-semitical jew .
    The motives are social/political/psychological etc , not just "rascist" , cuz hitler didnt like their noses .
    Its a myth whitch is held high these modern days , hitler was "simply" a bad man , cuz he didnt like jews , its ridiciouless .

    probably means in favor of a different approach towards jews , and i agree .
    1)They are the richest people on this planet
    2)They are the most powerfull people on this planet
    3)The Israeli ones , are genocidical .

    I say thats pretty nice arguments wouldnt u say ?

    Racism was not an issue , but a result of the problem . And yes , the problem was unemployment etc , and yes a public enemy was indeed nice : but that doesnt mean the public enemy was "racially" randomly chose , as if it could be any other people just as easy . Hitler explained perfectly his problems with the jews , and although he sounds pretty ignorant mostly , the basic principle of "they got everything we got nothing" was nothing but true , and the way society worked that way with jews (he didnt know what a jew was before he understood the power they had,he thought they were just germans with a funny religion)

    yes , make up excuses for Hitler psychotic mind , ridiciouless .
    His grandma is not damn jew neither did he have one ball , and even if he did , its irellevant .

    Some nice book to read :
    Arthur Koessler-13th Tribe
    Adolf Hitler-Mein Kampf
  11. Fafnir665 You just got served. Registered Senior Member

    if you define caucasion as pale skin, thick beard ability, dark hair, then im caucasion, and i beleive that is how its defined, aint it?
  12. spookz Banned Banned

    originally caucasian refered to persons with related skull shapes and their geo range streched from the brit isles into the indian subcontinent. the freak who put this theory forward held that the georgians had the prettiest skull so he took the name of the mountain range (caucasus) the georgians lived in and applied it to the inhabitants of whole continents.

    its meaningless, not very scientific and used by unimaginative govts to classify people.

    *semites are caucasian and white but yet that fact will not save them from a skinheads boot! i would advise em to rexamine their alliances and refrain from getting smug and complacent. your black curly hair and swarthy skin maybe blonde and pale now and give you some security but do not forget. never forget!

    kikes rule!
  13. spookz Banned Banned

  14. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

    very agreeable that to be the origin .

    2 flaws i detect . First of all , i would like to ask u how they are caucasian ?
    Secondly , how are they white ? The semitic "race" knows a variety of skincolors ..please xplain me why they are white ?

    U probably mean nazi-skinhead , u should know skinhead-ism has nothing , and quite the opposite even , to do with racism
  15. spookz Banned Banned


    i would like to ask u how they are caucasian ?

    popular classification. has no scientific basis since caucasian refers to persons that originate from a specific geographic location

    Secondly , how are they white ? The semitic "race" knows a variety of skincolors ..please xplain me why they are white ?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    popular classification. for instance the 2000 census.....

    "White "refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicated their race or races as "White "or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

    i was actually directing my rant at the jews in america. i should have been more specific and said "*jews are caucasian and white ........"

    U probably mean nazi-skinhead , u should know skinhead-ism has nothing , and quite the opposite even , to do with racism

    no i dont know. tell me
  16. LionHearted Registered Senior Member

    They are organized into three points with support following each point.

    ( PT 1 ) What Hitler was doing was in accordance with God's will.
    -Hitler at least believed that what he was doing was in accordance with God's will. In Mein Kampf he says
    Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
    ( PT 2 ) The Jews have turned their back on God and He is punishing them.
    ( T 3 ) Jews consider Gentiles to be inferior.
    -Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
    -Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
    -Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
    -Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
    -Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
    -Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

    I have not been able to find a copy of the Talmud to verify the quotes. I am not anti-Semetic, but I do want to understand the anti-Semetic point of view. I would also like to understand the arguments against anti-Semetism, so don't go calling me a nazi or anything.

    I'm getting to where I don't really trust people to tell me what is good and what is evil. I have been told a lot of things that turned out to not be true when I looked for myself. I have found that a good way to find the truth is to hear arguments from both sides and decide from that. I have found that the truth cannot be found from any one source most of the time especially with regard to history or issues such as anti-Semetism. Everything is biased one way or the other.

    Even if I were to find that more evidence supports the anti-Semetic point of view, I would never be out to kill the Jews. I would be out to teach them the truth and bring them to Christianity.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2003
  17. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Yes, Hitler was a bad man. He was responsible for at least forty million deaths (a conservative guess, I don't want Tyler jumping down my throat

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ). Racism is not a myth. Racism is real, and it is everywhere, mostly in mild forms, but nonetheless existent in many, if not all, of the minds of the current human population. This reason stems, I will theorize, from our natural fear of the unknown, and of what we do not understand. If it is encouraged, then it can develop into violence, if it is discouraged, then it can be smothered, but not altogether destroyed.

    Sure, if they weren't generalizations then I'd be clinking glasses with you!

    I'm sorry, but I can't take any arguments that stem from religion seriously.
  18. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

    Spookz ;
    well , as u are aware , popular definitions are oftenly meaningless and incorrect . I rather use proper identification according to truth rather than popularity .

    Caucasian and White , without proper explenation why , are not the people you speak of . Popular definitions are oftenly misleading , and very wrongly used .

    No , that was not the point really . But let me refer to another point , how can u connect a religion with a race ? Judaism is a religion not white nor caucasian . And when u speak of certain Jews , i just want to know by what principles they are seen as Caucasion , because there is more truth in that sentence than appears to be . You see , the modern jews actually ARE Caucasion by location , since THATS where there decendents the Khazars were from . And the other thing with white , calling Arabs white , and Lebanese.....where do this most hilarious statements come from ? Arabs are semitic-hamitic and have many shades of skin-color , lebanese white isnt also the same like German white , id say those popular terms are IGNORANT .

    And about the Skinhead . The skinhead subculture had his birth in black jamaican dancehalls in England , as a merge between Jamaican Rude Bwoys and poor Workingclass English Mods . This was in the 60's , and thats a skinhead .
    Some nazi's from germany looking the same way doesnt make them a skinhead , it merely makes them neo-nazi .

    By does anti-judaism = anti-semitism
    I havent seen 1 thing about semitism in the above stated .

    Why do those jews own this word semitism ?

    LMAO , u sound like Martin Luther ?
    What u gonna do , push em in a pool so they get baptized ?

    But if you want to understand the political view of Hitler , and after all that is what it was , all those ridiciouless myhs were nothing more than Himmler-maddness and propaganda , u should understand the Jewish situation in Austria back then .

    Here is why Austrian like Hitler might dislike jews :
    1)They own politics/government
    2)They own the banks
    3)They own the press
    4)They own the gold
    5)They own the diamonds
    4)They own theatre (and culture was big deal to Hitler , if u read his book , u would c how this was about his biggest problem , the fact that no "decend" play was performed anymore now the jews owned all of it)
    5)Hitler was unemployed

    Oh please was a white man who came up with racism and a jew who came up with anti-semitism , lets get real here please . Do u honestly believed some "jew" paranoia of the unknown has the base for ww2 ? Please.....
    Everybody who loses the battle always is the Bad Man

    How is it relevent weither they generalize or not ? What percentages are we speaking here ? Please , come with some arguements instead of a basic.....your generalizing
    Please tell me how am i doing that ?

    And where does religion come in exactly , mister God is an American ?
  19. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    Anti-semitism is an easy thing to kindle in Europe, with the appropriate techniques. While it was not the cause of WW2, it still occured during WW2, and Hitler was still responsible for it. To me, that makes Hitler a bad man. He killed people because they were Jewish.

    If these three statements aren't generalizations, then I don't know what is.

    Your truth is a joke even to lobotomized convicts.

    He quoted the bible, and I feel that in this day and age, the bible is becoming an irrelevant resource for argument merely because people are thinking instead of following. The bible was always irrelevant, however less people worship it now than ever before. "God is an American" is a joke, btw, a Bowe lyric.
  20. Whyatt Thrash Indecent Registered Senior Member

    As a european that doesn't have english as my native language, I might be misinterpreting what you just said... But if that sentence means what I think it means, and that "kindle" in this context means "ignite" or "spur", I immediately deem you to be a bigoted fool based on that remark.
  21. Charles Fleming Registered Senior Member

    This is true. the Jews controlled most of the worlds money when hitelr came/was in(to) power. While this may have been a driving factor in his 'cleasing' operations I think some sociological context should be taken into account. His 'breeding' of an Aryan race and cleansing of all others didn't come until after Evolution had been pretty much accepted (it seems to me) and an awareness of the universe as a whole was also dawning on humanity i.e. the realization that Earth really is just one planet in the universe. The fact that he even tried selective breeding shows Darwin's influence on Hitler (though he cannot be held responsible) and maybe Hitler wanted the human race (and Earth) to be ready for Alien encounters. It seems that he wanted the human race to be the best it could be, however he asumed that this is the human with blonde hair and blue eyes.
    Mein Kampf!
  22. Allahs_Mathematics Mar'Ifah Ahl As-Suffah Registered Senior Member

    He killed 6 million Turks .

    No dead Semite could be found , i find that hilarious for a world leader in the chase of semitical destruction , ofcourse he didnt know anything about whitch pleeds him free if we would use the "i didnt know it" argument people always use to appear less stupid .

    But thats assuming 6 million died etc . All i'm saying is that there were reasons to be hostile towards the Jewish society from an Austian-German point of view , it was not simply madness .
    All i am saying is that it was a serious political matter and not just something Hitler's the big blame for , and desribing Hitler typicall as "the bad man" , is nothing but a psychologically based ignorant phenomenon . It has little to do with what actually happened 50 years ago .

    People should get past their "he hates Jews" idea and start thinking about WHY Hitler had a problem with these people .
    Hitler's the bad guy doesnt do it for me .

    igniting anti-semitism with the proper techniques ?
    please , how foolish . I mean if this would be the talk of 48 with the that propaganda and lack of information retreaving possibillities , perhaps your ignorance could be forgiven ....but this 2003 mister , and all information can be accessed by this mad anarchic information retreaving system called internet . a book , a JEW invented anti-semitism , just as a WHITE MAN invented racism .

    Ur 100% correct there , you dont know what that is .

    Let me tell you why this generalization arguement is irrelevant .
    The question is not , are ALL jews guilty of such a fact .
    The question is , WHO is responsible for such facts .
    I understand 90% of the jews had little idea of how things were arranged , just as many Amerikans dont do about their government right now , and just as many Israeli's right now dont know about theirs . SO WHAT ?
    Does thit change the fact that all is owned by jews ?
    Does this change the fact that they ran the government , that they ran the gold-diamond markets , that they ran banking , that they ran the press ?

    No it does not .
    There goes your generalization .

    agreed 100%
    but i mean something different .

    "I'm sorry, but I can't take any arguments that stem from religion seriously."

    from a man who speaks of an American God(religious) ?

    U might c the ignorance just waiting to burst out of this misters brain .

    He/She is
    I agree here , but wasnt that all after his book ? I believe Himmler had a driving force in the philosophy of race etc . Hitler seemed to be really upset about the Theatre as he describes in his book .

    Adolf Hitler : "A precocious revolutionary in politics I was no less a precocious revolutionary in art. At that time the
    provincial capital of Upper Austria had a theatre which, relatively speaking, was not bad. Almost everything
    was played there. When I was twelve years old I saw William Tell performed. That was my first experience
    of the theatre. Some months later I attended a performance of Lohengrin, the first opera I had ever heard. I
    was fascinated at once. My youthful enthusiasm for the Bayreuth Master knew no limits. Again and again I
    was drawn to hear his operas; and to−day I consider it a great piece of luck that these modest productions in
    the little provincial city prepared the way and made it possible for me to appreciate the better productions
    later on."
    (A.Hitler-MeinKampf-page 14)

    He speaks of the Jews and their influence :
    Adolf Hitler : "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment I discovered the Jewish activities in
    the Press, in art, in literature and the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed
    only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the cinema and theatre, and study the
    names of the authors who were highly lauded there in order to become permanently adamant on Jewish
    questions. Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being infected. It was worse
    than the Black Plague of long ago. And in what mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed."
    (A.Hitler-MeinKampf-page 35)

    Amazing how it was the arts (theater) that was so strong a motive (and reasearchcentre )for Hitler rather care about the banks than about some theatre playes etc.

    But I do agree that there WAS a heavinly racial schizophrenia , and i believe it was Himmler who was the driving force behind it .
    Wasnt it so that Atlantis myths along with Nordic Gods even became Nazi proopaganda and philosophy ?

    If Darwinism was so great , the mythological part should be merely propaganda , but i could hardly believe this . People are capable in believeing a lot of bullshit (C Monotheistic Christianity/Islam/Judaism) , this wouldnt be such an amazing thing , although the timing indeed points more toward Darwin .

    Either way , the result is the system , racial purification .
  23. spookz Banned Banned


    "And about the Skinhead . The skinhead subculture had his birth in black jamaican dancehalls in England , as a merge between Jamaican Rude Bwoys and poor Workingclass English Mods . This was in the 60's , and thats a skinhead . "

    what are skinheads now? what ideology do most follow? if most are found to be rascist in character, you need to consider the term
    having evolved from its original roots! holding onto outdated definitions might be useful if you are doing historical research but impractical and inaccurate otherwise. secondly, there are probably different expressions of skinhead culture when it arises in other countries apart from britain. for instance, a second gen skin in the states wouldnt know shit about a dancehall in britain. the skin culture here is mostly nationalistic and racist.

    its cool to have strict interpretations of cultural and racial categories but it should not be taken to the point of nitpicking.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2003

Share This Page