Controversial AZ Immigration Bill is now Law

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sandy, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Mexican drug cartel increase all kinds of crime; murder of other cartel, kidnap has become common place, most drugs are from south of the border especially cocaine, most investigations of the drug cartel have concluded "Mexico is the guilty party".

    Police are already isolated from immigrant communities, well...with exception to County Sheriffs. Guadalupe police don't enforce present laws because half of their city elected officials have illegal family, and more than half of their police force has illegal family! Only 2 miles east across the 202 freeway, there are practically no illegals in residence and their police enforce laws. Unfortunately Guadalupe as a city-wide standard practice has thuggish children (and adults) which sell drugs and rob every other city in the county! They themselves have very little crime because they keep the love to themselves. Mexico sucks, send them home.
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Local instability is one way of dismissing rights
     
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  5. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm... Federal Power vs States Rights... That sounds familiar... oh right! The Civil War!

    Although it is fair to note that unlike the Civil War, the States are in the right on this one. The Federal Government isn't doing anything to help protect the Southern Border, or enforce the laws... or help local law enforcement do their job... in fact it really seems like it's doing quite the opposite sometimes.

    I mean, I understand that these people are only coming over in search of a better life, and don't get me wrong, that's great, but are we to be expected to extend this courtesy over to every other country on this grand a scale? We would never do this for any other country, and I would like to boldly go out and say that it's racist that we favor Mexicans in such a way. Albeit the Chinese do it too in California, and it's much harder for them to cross the Pacific than it is for Mexicans to cross a border, but we send them back sure enough!

    Illegal immigrants induce stress on the local government and local economy because they don't pay into the system yet they receive all of the benefits. They displace Americans out of jobs because minimum wage laws, and labor laws don't apply to them. (Although to be fair, that's an issue with the minimum wage laws more than it is an issue with illegal immigration itself)

    While I'm sure most of them are good, honest people, there are a lot who smuggle in drugs, illegal unregistered weapons, and cause crime. There are many who drive unregistered, uninsured cars and get into accidents because they don't know how to drive. What's worse, most of them don't know how to speak the native language, and most Americans are too stubborn to bother learning theirs.

    It's just a terrible situation, and I believe Arizona is well within their rights to say 'Enough is enough' and do their best to protect their own interests.
     
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  7. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Plus, Mexican food sux
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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  9. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Nay: it's their state, which belongs to OUR country. If, as one example, one state decides to legalize something that is completely unconstitutional, "it's their state" does not make for an acceptable rationalization. Each state's whims and wishes is ultimately subject to and scrutinized under the supreme law of the land: the United States Constitution. Sorry folks.

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    In other news, it has been alleged that men in Arizona and Texas have very tiny penises. So tiny, in fact, that it has severely affected their personalities. Officials are currently investigating this allegation, in the hope of putting this question to rest once and for all.
     
  10. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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  11. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    Nah, I love me some Mexican food so long as it doesn't come from Taco Bell.
     
  12. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    Except what they're doing in Arizona is perfectly legal constitutionally, it's just controversial because they aren't being pushovers and "helping out the little guy". What they're doing is ENFORCING the laws that have largely been ignored by the Federal Government. They've appealed for help time after time and it's to the point that the situation is desperate for the government, the economy, and the people of the state.

    Sorry, your statement is wholly ignorant and depressingly stupid, right up to the obligatory "small penises" statement that advertises your immaturity.
     
  13. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Nay, friend. Arizona already has laws on the books that they could use but willfully and purposefully refuse to enforce. There are already severe restrictions for employing illegals: your business can be dissolved. There is also a business registry to ensure that a social isn't faked. Arizona does not take advantage/make use of these things.

    Arizona is not ignored by the federal government. Rather, Arizona is simply too much of a buttfucked desert shithole for its government to wake up and make use of its own laws.
     
  14. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    thats news to me in 2 ways federal law trumps state law. and I didnt know it was legal to legalize descrimination guess you do learn something every day
     
  15. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Chipotle is not Mexican food. It's not even southwestern food. That's a Colorado corruption of the San Francisco style burrito. Mexicans cooking doesn't feature flour tortillas, just to list one obvious give-away.

    Also, Chipotle started out in Denver, which is in the fucking Great Plains. Mexico that is not.
     
  16. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    Legalizing discrimination works both ways here. You allow amnesty for Mexican illegals, then you discriminate against illegals from other countries who routinely get deported. You send the Mexicans back to their country, then it's discrimination because there are so many more of them, it looks like the only ones you're deporting are Mexicans. Besides, you're ignoring the fact that legal immigrants are perfectly welcome in any state from any country, including Arizona.

    Let's also ignore the fact that the people who are in Arizona (a state which I shouldn't need to remind you shares a border with Mexico) illegally are chiefly Mexicans; I doubt very seriously that you'll find illegals from very many other countries there, and if you do, they're going to be deported just like the Mexicans. Sorry, like the story of Cinderella says; if the shoe fits, wear it.

    With all the trouble they cause whether they're minding their own business or actively causing problems, it's high time somebody spelled the issue out loud and clear. They are, as I've said before, doing what is necessary to protect the interests of the state, the people, and the economy. Just because it's unpopular and you don't agree with their methods, doesn't mean they aren't right.

    If that's so, then do indulge me as to which laws exactly are being "willfully and purposefully ignored" by Arizona, and then do me the extra favor of perhaps enlightening me as to what motivations they would have to shoot their own cause in the foot in such a way. I would greatly appreciate this sort of info, and openly welcome being shown the error of my ways.

    Also, when the border states have all requested aid from the Federal Government either through manpower or funding to help secure the border somehow, and have not gotten any sort of assistance, then I call that being ignored. I can almost guarantee that Arizona won't be alone in taking such drastic measures to combat illegal immigrants from leeching off of the system... I've heard rumors (however unreliable as those may be) that Texas might be soon to follow suit.
     
  17. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    well i just hope Arizona is rich they will have plenty of lawsuits against them for citizens that were pulled over because they weren't white.. no matter how you twist it the law legalized discrimination

    and since we are ignoring facts how about we ignore the fact that we stole part of this country from Mexico and the natives it was there to begin with we just forcefully took it.

    lets also ignore the fact that they Hispanics will take jobs most people wont, and that for the most part work WAY fucking harder than the average American for 1/3 the wages.. i don't really want to profile here but there isn't much way around it.. if we took 100% of the illegal immigrants out who would clean our hotels? who would pick up the garbage clean our houses etc. do sewer maintenance? cook food?
     
  18. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sure they won't have as big a problem with that as you might suspect. The Police know the risks involved with false accusation and their jobs are on the line whenever they arrest somebody wrongfully. Most of the police work involved will probably come from looking over paperwork and questioning employers for proof of citizenship of their employees. Asking for proof of citizenship during traffic stops will probably become part of the routine so it's practiced evenly across the board. Obviously you can't fully protect against abuse of the law, but Arizona HAS rewritten the laws since they came out to make sure that Police officers are held accountable for their actions.

    What does it matter who owned the land before? Are you saying we should say "I'm sorry, I believe this belongs to you" and hand almost half the country over to Mexico? I'm sorry, that's a ridiculous argument.

    There are reasons for that, and no, it isn't because "Mexicans are inherently, and genetically harder workers than Americans" they have their fair share of lazy sods too if you'll believe it. A big part of the reason Mexicans get jobs is because of Day laboring (jumping on a truck with a contractor and getting paid for doing a days worth of work under the table) and because minimum wage laws don't apply to them, so employers hire them for less than they would pay an American citizen. If we took out 100% of the illegal immigrants, we would probably fill those job spots up pretty quickly with Americans hurting for whatever job they can land.

    Do yourself a favor and watch the show "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery Channel and tell me if you see a single lazy, snooty American working the worst jobs possible for peanuts.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    If we're considering facts, this is what happened: Spain showed up, conquered the Aztecs (with the help of smallpox), and claimed all the land for itself. Later, Mexico won independence from Spain, and claimed said land for itself. Neither party ever really followed through on their plans to colonize the southwest, and so there were only about 80,000 Mexicans in what is now the Southwestern US at the time of the Mexican American war (mostly in CA and TX, AZ and NM were nearly unpopulated) - note that Mexico only nominally controlled the lands in question for about 25 years, and never exercised much genuine authority there.

    And so when Civil War broke out in Mexico (after the Mexican dictator suspended the Constitution), Texas gained independence and joined the United States. Mexico didn't like this, and so a war ensued which Mexico lost handily. What is often neglected in this narrative is that many of the Hispanic settlers in the southwest felt no real allegiance to Mexico - they went there on Spanish land grants, and never felt much loyalty to the subsequent Mexican government. Go meet some Hispanic New Mexicans descended from that era some time - they will not appreciate it if you call them "Mexicans." Many are, in fact, at least as racist towards Mexicans as any white American you'll find - they consider themselves of European Spanish descent.

    Bottom line, however, is that the only people with any serious claim to having something "stolen" that was rightfully theirs to begin with are the natives. And they're still here - allowing Mexicans to populate those areas in some kind of replay of their failed attempt to colonize in the 1800s is not historical justice, but farce. Integrating all of the people in question - Americans, Mexicans, Natives, etc. into a productive, just system, on the other hand, would be progress.
     
  20. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    If the immigration hubbub in Arizona were successful in rolling back undocumented workers, the State and regional economy would implode, and the politicians know it. This is not about limiting or deporting these workers, just as the Great Wall of America concept is not what it seems.

    This is political theater written for the Fox News audience, and (mis)calculated to heat up tensions and create a right-wing uptick in time with the election cycle. It's the right wing primarily employing these people.
     
  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    if they were merely enforcing laws they wouldn't have nneded to pass one
     
  22. soullust Registered Senior Member

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    What do you mean?

    How do you enforce a law that wasn't passed?

    Wouldn't that make it not a law?
     
  23. Black Jack Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing Registered Senior Member

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    He's commenting on the paradox of what I said in respect that what they're trying to do is enforce the laws that were already on the book by passing an even harsher law.

    A fair comment, I'll give him that.
     

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