Could we create the perfect world?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Holly-May Leslie, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    Okay. It is true that maths is required for functioning at a high level, but the people I am talking about don't need to function at any high level. Also, I think that most non straight people are only made that way because of what they are taught about sexuality, as there seems to be no evolutionary point in being, well, not straight. Also, what is religion, in this context?
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  3. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    Thanks. I understand. I'm not sure about whether or not my parents make a good living, but I think that they do, and I think this because our fridge is usually stocked properly, and we live in a fairly big, fairly nice house on a great property.
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  5. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    Then perhaps we should just convince everyone to want everyone to be happy, so that they all share this common interest with no disruptive imposition, and help others in need, psychologically/materially.
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  7. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    I am planning on making people morally better through my writing anyway. What would fix your life right back up again, realistically?
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    You make one comment that seemed a bit illogical and that was that you like writing, want to write for a living but think English class is useless and is only to teach you "big words"?

    Most writers read a lot and therefore have a large vocabulary. Most writers don't dismiss a large vocabulary as just using "big words". I would guess that most future writers enjoy English class as well.
  9. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    I think that English class is useless because it is about teaching waffle instead of English, in most cases. Most writers probably would have fairly extensive vocabularies resulting from their tendency to read a lot, as is required in their line of work.
  10. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    Very true. The only possible way of proving is re-explaining in a way which makes sense when the previous way did not make sense.
  11. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    So churches operate like that I guess.
  12. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    1: English is required for lots of things, sure. ENGLISH however, as in, the subject, is just pointless word salad as far as I am aware.
    2: sure. But it is taught wrongly in most cases.
    3: That is probably true. I don't think that people's futures should depend on it though.
    4: Okay. But they would just find out about it naturally otherwise, probably by overhearing people discuss it. Also, I would say that most people being taught about sex in health class already know about it.
    5: Very true.

    If you made yourself really good at maths, then well done.
    It is true that education might make one better at some things, but I would say that it is more about compliance and slavery than learning, and that people don't really understand what they are doing, and are just reciting what they don't have a clue about in ways which sound really intelligent in school. For example, when my teacher would teach maths in my maths class, then ask people to recite it, and have them do so very well, but then ask them to explain how it worked, and have virtually nobody pipe up.

    It's not a joke that the internet is good for learning. It is a wild west of information, which one can sift through selectively to find what one needs to know, cutting out the drivel and pointlessness.
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    was rhetorical

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  14. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    1: Anyone who does that is the scum.
    2: It was. They do.
    3: True.

    Also, maybe you should work on raising people who have great critical thinking skills so that they can make their own decisions instead. Also, I read in the 48 laws of power that a great way to persuade anyone of anything is to appeal to their best interests, and it seems to work.
    Therefore, in order to raise people who don't want to be anti vax, maybe tell them that they will die horribly if they are. It might even be true, in many cases.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    only 1 thing
    money for rent(& food) & money to pay down my medical bills

    different people find different things that make them happy
    but ... some people grow up in bad situations & so what they feel they need to be happy is to hurt other people
    that is their only way yo make themself feel happy.

    morals are generally established through childhood
    by the time hey read what you write they already have morals
    so you would have to convince them that they want to choose a different set of morals which also includes them choosing different things to make themselves happy.

    writing as creative writing
    & Englsh as a language intellectual subject
    is 2 different things
    creative writing is quite complicated and has all sorts of its own set of concepts & forms
    you need to read on that subject to get a feel for what buyers may be looking to purchase
    even then you need celebrity power to get people to buy your book
    other wise you wont make any money from it

    i was lucky enough to grow up with a close person who was an English teacher by trade & held a degree i the subject & they were very smart
    also my mother & my father were both very big on technical correctness when it comes to spelling & maths.

    so a lot of my childhood was being corrected by professionals lol
    this allows you to build a much larger vocabulary which then allows you o learn more.
    arrogance around power concepts towards intellectual subjects(quite common & even trendy in some social classes & groups) is a burden to your learning.

    publishing books means nothing unless you have an audience ready to buy
    you can throw money at it but then you spend all your profits of marketing & make very little money.

    most people do not want to learn & study hard
    they just want power & money to buy material things & control to manipulate others

    wow !

    i have spent considerable private time talking with psychologists psychiatrists & social workers over the years.
    i suggest you try & put aside your preconceptions & seek to learn if you wish.
    but if you choose not to learn & not do the hard work(it is hard work)

    then your critique of the fields of science becomes somewhat pointless
    much like art
    people can like art

    but to critique its styles forms & nuances takes considerable learning

    have a thought about what type of clients & patients social workers would be required to manage & what type of people psychologists would learn from.

    being a professional social worker is one of the hardest jobs along with psychiatric nursing of outpatients
    both terribly underpaid

    many people have sexual issues(one of the most common personal developmental issues)
    thats quite normal but not openly discussed
    sexual drive & sexuality is not very well understood
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Anyone who doesn't get vaccinated? I don't agree there. Most of them are pretty reasonable people who have just been misled. (A few, of course, are antisocial scum - but I believe that's the exception rather than the rule.)
    If it was hyperbole then they're not teaching you to be slaves. It sounds like you're expressing your dislike of some part of what you are being taught in school, which makes more sense.
    I agree! Unfortunately, teaching that is hard work. For example, one of the best ways to expand your analytical skills is to learn calculus. It teaches you a whole new way to think about math and its applications. But it's hard to learn, and it takes effort. Another way is to teach science starting from fundamentals; teach the scientific process and then have people try on their own to determine natural laws. Again, that's a long, drawn out process because such work takes time and results in far more mistakes than successes.

    I would note that often the term "teach them to think outside the box" is used as a stand in for "don't teach them about the box" (i.e. teach them the usual suite of math, English, science etc.) But you can't think outside the box until you understand the box to begin with.

    I also agree there - but that depends greatly on what the various people think a person's "best interests" are. Right now my 10 year old would be of the opinion that learning to be better at video games was in his best interest, but we think that learning the basics of math, science etc is more in his best interest.
    Again depends on the person. There are a great many people out there, for example, who would rather feel that they belong to a special group with special (superior) knowledge than be vaccinated - even if they get sick and/or die.

    This has been borne out in practice. Most anti-vaxxers on their deathbeds have said something to the effect of "I wish I had gotten the vaccine" but a sizable percentage say things like "this can't be COVID - COVID is a lie" or "this is because of all the drugs you've been giving me; I'd be fine without them." One popular commentator is even claiming that what is killing people is ventilators - because most people with COVID who go on ventilators die.
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

    I am not sure what you are saying here. Learning to communicate in English is critical in today's society. That means understanding how to speak, write and read (and more importantly understand what you read.) Other languages are good to know, but the most important skill that has to be taught in school is to communicate well in one. So the underlying goal is good communication; English is just the way most of us learn to do that. The name of the course in most schools that teaches one to communicate in English is English.

    Of course, as before, there are good and bad teachers.

    Again, there are good and bad teachers.

    Oh, you'd be amazed. My mother was a writing teacher in a high school, and she overheard some pretty amazing misunderstandings from her (and her colleague's) students.
    "It would be my first time so I wouldn't get pregnant, because of the blood thing."
    "You can't get pregnant when you have sex in that position."
    "When guys have an orgasm, they pee a little - that's what comes out."
    I would argue that you can teach math that way to some people and they will come away knowing how it works. You can teach math that way to other people and all they will come away with is being able to recite it and being able to do the problems on tests.

    The first set of people is better off. But both come away being able to do basic math.
    The Internet is a great tool if you know how to use it. But it is 99.9% misinformation, drivel and pointless nonsense - and it is designed to give you that stuff FIRST.

    I often use it to look up academic papers, for example. You have to make a conscious choice to do that, though, and generally use a specific search term to ensure you get (mostly) academic material.
  18. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    1: Anyone who forces people to get vaccinated is scum. This action is what I meant with the word "that" in this context. Obviously. Also, I would say that although vaccine's are good things in most cases, people should be careful about them because it is sensible to be careful about what is being injected into one's blood stream.

    2: The first point is a non sequitur. Schools do teach people things to do with being slaves, and thus by extension teach people to be slaves. I dislike school because it seems broken in almost every possible way. I even try to make my likes and dislike's objective.

    3: In most cases, teaching probably would be hard because of stupidity, or other factors. However, I would say that in order to create the perfect world everyone must be taught how to think properly, at least to a certain extent, nonetheless. I don't think that super high level thinking is required in a perfect society, IN EVERY CASE. However, it is my estimation that people should at least be able to debate perfectly and do adequate cost/benefit analysis's of real life situations.
    Very high level thinking, like your calculus, would probably only be required in technological or governmental fields. In the first case, it would be for figuring out how to invent stuff and maintain those inventions. In the second, it would be for calculating the affect's of hypothetical proposed legislation.

    4: Maybe get him scientific/Mathematical video games then, or alternatively tell him that he can't have them unless he studies math and science. That might work.

    5: Maybe they're wrong. Maybe they're right. If coronavirus is a threat, then tighter harassment laws should probably be introduced to protect people from it. Since all I know is it might be, these harassment laws should probably be introduced anyway, from my perspective.
  19. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    Okay. Subjects which should be taught in school: English and Critical thinking and Health, and PE. Ways they are taught with the exception of PE: Terribly.
    PE should probably be a non credit subject too.
    Also, you would not be arguing with me by saying that people can come away knowing how it works by having it just talked at them and not properly explained to them. They would just have to figure it out for themselves in such cases. I did.
  20. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

    1: Do you have any good ways to get it? My initial idea was rob a bank, but that probably wouldn't go down very well...

    2: Yes. Like my class mate Deen who said that if he could have a superpower he would have telepathy so that he could use it to make people go insane. Everyone else in the room looked scared, except for me. I laughed at the villainy. Since these people probably can't be persuaded to want to assist others for intrinsic reasons, perhaps they would be persuaded to do so for intrinsic reasons. I mean, we all live in a positive sum world, where the more goodies there are to go around, the more goodies each person has to take from, so that is some incentive for sociopaths to help others right there. Also, if they act morally for long enough, and avoid being hurt for long enough, maybe they all will become kinder as a result of this.That is what happened to me. That is my evidence that this would work.

    4: What is this talk about creative writing? I was talking about word salad. I plan to do some reading to find what people may be looking for in creative writing. I have done so a little bit already, but it seems to me that most of it is just American action movie bs which I am not willing to write.
    I think the title is the most vital thing for getting people to buy my book. I've been thinking that I might call it: Basically a dark comedy. Do you think that that will make people want to buy it? If not, do you have any alternatives? I would say that the title is the most vital thing for the author to use to make anyone want to buy their book in most cases actually, because it's not like the purchaser is going to read a whole lot of that book before purchasing it.

    Also, what do you mean by arrogance and power concepts toward intellectual subjects here?

    5: Okay.
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    First, I would point out that you're making what's known as an argument from ignorance. Specifically, you can't think of an evolutionary reason why some people should not be "straight", and therefore you conclude (perhaps wrongly) that such a reason cannot exist.

    Second, you seem to be assuming that sexual orientation is a social rather than a biological product. Do you believe that somebody can be "talked out of" their sexual orientation and into a different one, for instance? If so, why do you believe that?

    Thirdly, you sound a little judgmental about other people's sexual preferences. Is that the case? Do you think it is "better" in some sense to be "straight"?
    Is anybody doing that, though? Who is tying people up and forcefully injecting them?

    Bear in mind that we live in a society with other people. Should an individual have the right to endanger other members of the community (e.g. by greatly increasing their chances of spreading a dangerous virus to other people)?
    Do you trust the scientific work that has been done on ensuring that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe? If not, why not?
    It sounds like you have some specific ideas about what it means to "think properly". What are they?
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member


    Quote Adolf much?
  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Some teachers and methods are better than others but I disagree with your concept of, in effect, trying to tell the teacher how to teach or you won't get it. That's a rather rigid and controlling way of thinking. Someone is supposed to read your mind and structure the way they teach to you rather than to the whole class?

    Open your mind a little more and be a little more flexible and you will learn more just the way that it's being taught, just like everyone else does.

    You also seem to dismiss certain subjects even though you aren't particularly knowledgeable regarding those subjects. Of course this fits into the stereotype of a teenager as someone who thinks they know it all already...

    What exactly is going on in your English class that you consider to be "word salad"?

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