Do you think that AI will ever feel emotions?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by wegs, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Natura Artis Magistra (nature is the teacher of arts and sciences)
    So far all human inventions are artificial imitations of natural values and functions. That's all there is. If it works in nature, it will work for humans. Why look elsewhere for unknown solutions?
    Huh? That means we should look for "unnatural" solutions, because we do know what came before, but we don't know what we are looking for in the future?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Neural networks (implemented in silicon) perform the same functions as biological neural networks.

    Right. And computers are not neurons; they can do a lot more than a neuron.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But biological systems run on neurotransmitters AND electrical potentials; that does not make them capable of emotion. Planaria, for example, have neural networks, but no emotion.
     
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  7. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    No, it won't. We know fish can breathe water, but that doesn't work for us, so we invent underwater gear which is wholly artificial.
    We know flapping their wings works for birds and butterflies, but it doesn't work for us, so we invent a wholly artificial mode of flight.
    We use unnatural solutions to most of our challenges. For that matter, most of the challenges we set for ourselves are already unnatural.
    No, because there is nothing natural about concrete, jewellery, cannons, internal combustion engines or GPS satellites.
    In all purposeful activity, we do know what we're looking for. What we don't know is how the things we make will evolve when we're gone.
    I said:
    "The difference is, in a couple of thousand years, those future generations of AI won't assume that their way is the only way"
    as a reaction to your assumption that the way it's been is the only way it can ever be.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, that means the common denominator of everything is mathematical or quasi-intelligent in essence.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    BINGO!
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree, the combination of electro-chemical reactions allow for the bio-chemical experience of emotion.
    That does not mean all biological system can experience emotion, but it is the apparent template for emotional expression.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    First, fish do not breathe water. They breathe oxygen extracted from water. But you are still looking at this much too narrowly. Spiders already use "diving bells" . Mammals roam the oceans and are able to dive to astounding depths. Aquatic mammals originated in the oceans and evolved to oxygen breathing land mammals. Most likely the reverse happened as well for some species which returned to water.
    Wiki
    No we didn't. Gliding (aerodynamics) was the first attemp at flight in nature. Ever seen a flying squirrel?

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    All attainable challengs are natural in essence. Even tool making is not exclusively human.
    Concrete; termites. Jewelry; many birds like to collect and entice females with trinkets, "pretty stuff".

    Cannons (combustion); ever heard of the Bombardier beetle? Ever had a squirrel hit you with a nut? GPS; Migrating birds use a form of GPS (orientation) or the earth's magnetic fields to navigate. The animal world is full of the use of chemistry. It's the major ingredient in the love-life of all mating species.
    Right, all living things have puposeful activity. "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction" is a universal imperative. But that law also includes entropy. That's why inert materials do not evolve, they devolve.
    That's what happenes to both to living and inert objects, including artificial machines which use energy in order to function.
    Because they will know that natural values and functions are the primary source of evolutionary processes and if they are smart, they will heed the dangers of wanton use of resources, like humans do. Parasitic behaviors run the risk of killing the host unless the behavior is mutually beneficial and then we have symbiosis.
    Oh, and there was a time things were not natural and there will be a time where things are not natural? Careful now.......

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Read it again. I think you missed the message. Look for the question mark.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. But I see no reason that biochemical emotions are the only 'real' emotions.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I keep my mind wide open, but understanding one (natural) functionality may help in devising artificial substitutes.
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    OMG !
    you are such an independent neuron !
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The deeper into the life of neurons you go the greater the surprises
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centriole#Role_in_cell_division

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    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-neuron-2794890
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know where you get that. While endlessly fascinating and educational, none of the little anatomy lessons are relevant to the subject to hand. No, there was never a time before nature; time is part of nature. But we are now well into the era when man-made things are artificial - the making of those things has departed from the natural pattern.
    You disagree. That's fine.
    I believe this horse has had enough punishment for one death.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't disagree, I merely posit that nothing man can do is unnatural and as such must comply with natural laws. No magical shortcuts.
     
  19. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    What, then, is your definition of "artificial"?
    Comply with natural laws - i.e. of physics - and imitate biology are two very different propositions.
    Who proposed any?
    I said intelligent design might be more efficient than evolution, by taking a faster, more direct mechanical route - nothing more.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Something that is made by a living organism for "movement in the direction of greatest satifaction".

    A bird's nest is an artificial construct. A spider's web is an artificial construct. Get it?
    Not at all. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. There is nothing that is not physical, including biology.
    a) all physical events have to answer to physical laws.
    b) all imitations are merely variations on a theme.
    Intelligent design is merely design in accordance with natural law. There is only natural intelligent design, not magical intelligent design. To the universe, time is not a factor, as long as evolution and natural selection are nothing more than a dynamical chronology of deterministic events.
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, whatever.
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Correction;
    What is identified as Intelligent Design is merely a design in accordance with natural mathematical laws, a quasi intelligent function, not by any form of magic or free will which replaces natural mathematics.
     
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Nobody said one word about magic, or circumventing mathematical and physical laws or any of that nonsense. You dragged that in, just like you dragged in the birds and bees and squirrels. I have no idea why you did that, as it was all irrelevant,
    We - some of us - were talking about mechanical vs organic arrangement of materials to achieve similar functions.
    If you want to talk about every other damn thing under the sun, have at it!
    So - what ever: you have the podium.
     

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