Glacial & ice shelf calving & Climate Change news & updates/discussion

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by RainbowSingularity, Feb 28, 2021.

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Do you think sea level rise will dramatically impact modern citys ?

  1. yes considerably

    100.0%
  2. yes but only a tiny amount

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. no

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    it looks like calving is accelerating (as i suspected)
    i wonder if it is exponentially speeding up.
    what are the implications ?
    global impacts commercial/financial/transport ?
    what are the environmental impacts ?

    it looks like melting is speeding up

    as these ice shelves are broken off they will allow glaciers to speed up & calve faster
    (so scientists have suggested)


    https://www.livescience.com/brunt-ice-shelf-breaks-antarctica.html

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  3. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    The graphs that I have seen about the extent of warming in the Arctic seems to indicate that methane must be being released from the permafrost at serious levels.

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    Surely this significant warming in the Arctic will lead to more record breaking summers of melting on the land based Greenland Ice Pack similar to 2012 and 2019.

    I am convinced that ocean levels could rise much more rapidly than we would tend to imagine.
     
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  5. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    If the following statistic is valid... this will help to explain why we have not yet seen very serious rise in ocean levels.

     
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    the layers of propaganda & deliberate miss information & anti science media is extensive& deep & also interwoven into what would otherwise seem like ordinary middle of the road organisations.

    so you can not simply go to 1 data production & extricate a value
    you need to cross reference the data with other data sources to value the datas origin
    then cross reference that with other studys

    i have been doing this type of thing for years to check science fact from the anti-science people whom have been waging war on science for over 2 decades

    quick note
    i will come back
    run your data
    cross reference it
    then research correlative balance to function
    then post something to that effect

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    thanks for the info

    quick note if its not your subject area, note exponential ice shelf to sea water contact melt rates
    so new ice on top must be always happening to balance to a zero sum

    glacial speed, ice shelf calving, glacial calving
    has always happened & the sea level has stayed the same roughly
    so this point is, regardless of the snow fall on top of the primary ice regions
    there is an accelerating factor that snow fall ice creation/balance is a side issue to.
    (where the game is on this one)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    It has been proposed that at end eemian the sea level rose at least 2 meters-(very quickly)--maybe more, due to an ice sheet collapse---west antarctica?

    this should be expected
    and
    if the 400kyr cycle is accurate
    expect more
     
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  9. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    Yes.... this topic relates to proposals that connect with potentially hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars in government spending and private investment over the coming years and decades.

    Some people do not want it to become common knowledge how much danger we may well be in in some ways from the threat of rising ocean levels.

    I am just a janitor who reads a lot and I feel that I am in no position to laugh at a theory put forward by Graham Hancock. Perhaps Hancock was referring to the work of Dr. Pyyotor Shoumsky or perhaps the reverse is true... I have no idea but it is astonishing how silent the internet seems to be on this topic.

    I listened to a documentary last year that did a good job of summarizing why total and free disclosure of all relevant information on many important topics may not be exactly what the world has at this time.

    Why Big Oil Conquered the World
     
  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    I remember reading a statistic by Dr. James Hanson that the last time that atmospheric temperatures rose by about three degrees, ocean levels rose something like twenty five meters over about four centuries.

    This article seems to be helpful.

    Peer-Reviewed Study Confirms Antarctica Has Not Warmed in Last Seven Decades

    Notice especially the reply by Scottar Brooke February 28, 2021 At 12:58 am
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,371
    i do not wish to talk about oil & gas companies
    i am not paid to study or discuss this stuff(or any stuff)

    west antarctic + Greenland = 10 meters(& there is a lot more than just that, but those have been listed as primary initial indicators of the driving 1st rise)
    10 meters is unsustainable for modern human civilization

    the question is how soon


    (the science area)currently looking at ice shelf exponential melt rates

    now sea water which is warming, is flowing faster underneath it
    this may be accelerating the shelf calving in an exponential speed


    it appears the oceans have absorbed a great deal of heat from the atmosphere so the atmospheric heating may be secondary to ocean warming


    How close is the West Antarctic ice sheet to a ‘tipping point’?

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-how-close-is-the-west-antarctic-ice-sheet-to-a-tipping-point



     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...3_1615630165_2849dd46f2d51af8556aaf63a61f4619


    >>> West Antarctic Ice Sheet


    http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/antarctica-2/west-antarctic-ice-sheet-2/west-antarctic-ice-sheet/

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  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    part of the issue of the ice shelf melting and raising sea levels by 3.3 meters is the additional melting it will cause as it melts
    melting other ice sheets
    so the 3.3 meters also goes for other ice sheets
    rough calculation by several climate scientists studying it suggest around 5 meters Greenland 5 meters Antarctica
    based on the 2 Degrees C' threshold

    however
    it appears that with global ocean warming
    the climate temp may be secondary to sea temps
    which is quite a game changer

    unfortunately a lot of people including leaders whos job it is to solve these issues and manage them have been conditioned to throw their hands up & run away & change the subject or play bully victimization distraction games
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,322
    Much of the west Antarctic ice sheet is a marine ice sheet.

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  15. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Wow!!!!

    I saw an image related to the West Antarctic Ice Sheet about a decade or so ago that gave me the impression that it was rather vulnerable to rapid cracking and sliding into the ocean.

    For example... what would happen to the WAIS if it were to be hit by a tsunami.... or an earthquake under it????

    Collapse Of Antarctic Ice Sheet Would Likely Put Washington, D.C. Largely Underwater

     
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  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,322
    The antarctic archipelago lies close to the center of the antarctic plate, so earthquake seems unlikely.

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    A tsunami?
    Perhaps from the plate boundary with the pacific plate?

    Anyway
    One should expect sea level rise without our help. It was warmer than the Holocene during the last(eemian) interglacial by 2 degrees C and the whole of the greenland ice sheet did not melt.
    however, if
    The 400kyr cycle repeats, then we may well see conditions much like during Marine isotope stage 11(@ 400kyrs ago), wherein it was much warmer for much longer than this current interglacial(so far).
    During that time, the arctic ice and arctic desert were gone and the shores of the arctic ocean were forested.
    And, our ancestors spread from south africa to the arctic ocean, and seemed to be doing quite well.

    A warmer climate is a more equable climate----most warming will be in the higher latitudes both north and south.
    so we give up some low-lying coastal areas but gain the use of much of the far north. (? and, maybe Antarctica?)

    Perhaps, Washington DC will improve for the flooding?
    If you build on a floodplain, expect flooding.

    ...................................................
    If the ice melts, would the antarctic archipelago still be considered a continent?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,371
    the scientists doing the work backed by physicists suggest around total 10 meter sea level rise
    that increase will put the largest citys under water.

    "flood plains" inland may become inundated
    however coastal main citys will be un workable
    which is a large amount of infrastructure to move.
    moving it should already be under planning to create & start building now
    the moving time will be considerable along with the building stage.

    managing this in a manner that allows business to continue operating at the current required global capacity requires action.

    climate change refugees will be considerable.
    hence the need for country's to invest in building up their navy's to manage large populations on the water moving around.
     
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  18. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    Or.... if we look at monetary theory differently we could finance turning deserts green on a scale that would put a comparable amount of
    H2O into deserts......
    as is melting off the land based ice sheets or the world's glaciers each decade.

    We have the technology already... what is missing is understanding how to finance doing this.

    Sorek Desalination Plant

    It is good to know that President Lincoln did save USA taxpayers four billion dollars in interest payments.

     
  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,371
    actually
    if you looked into the Geo Science you would see that a regular earth quake zone where 3 different plates meet
    sits fairly close

    South Sandwich Islands region
    is a hot spot for earth quakes
    if a shallow quake were to strike there up less than 5kms deep & be above a 7.5
    it would almost certainly create a tsunami that "may" or may not break ice sheets(we are talking about the thin ice sheets that act as cooling plates & that hold land temperature down & keep glaciers frozen & slow moving.)
    all dependent on the direction of force & the direction of the wave, the sea floor etc etc

    it is certainly not in the impossible to expect probability.
    the probability of 7.0 is fairly high
    but i suspect it would need to also be shallow(above 5ms depth) & be above 7.5

    additionally
    South Shetland Islands
    not entirely uncommon
    a lot closer to
    a large quake there would have big potential impact

    sea-weed mussels & shrimps grow in salt water(& flamingos for christmass dinner)
    grass is only useful for money if it gives low cost investment like grass for grazing animals.
    otherwise the entire grass market is domestic disposable lawn care/make-up

    carbon sinking with grass ?
    living plants need water
    desertification is primarily the loss of water via rain.
    Rain brings its own nutrients once in sufficient amounts
    contrasted to top soil requirements which tend to be neutralized by the lack of water
    (sterilization by dehydration making any composite compound unable to sustain growth)
    some exceptions exist with ocean land geography where sea mist rolls in and drops water on to the sand
    even 500 year old cactus needs some form of moisture occasionally
    recent botanical field research has speculated probable plants to be not uncommonly several hundred years old.
    as amazing as these may be & at some time in the future offer some insights to long life span food crops
    there is no shortage of food in the world
    just a shortage of peace & a shortage of people willing to sell that food at reasonable prices to those who can barely afford to pay for it at cost price.

    i digress
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,371
    this is interesting
    https://news.sky.com/story/melting-...-rise-up-to-18-metres-scientists-say-12262567

    it links to some other study's which concerned when the major land masses were covered in ice and how sea level rise rose at those speed as the bulk of te land that had ice on it melted.

    it all a bit complicated

    my short speed read of the data and looking at the current sea level rise
    there is no data on the rate of sea level rise from where we are currently to where all ice melts

    generically speaking the current rate of sea level rise has no comparison at all to their historic records as the ice is land mass ice age ice
    not the current ice that we have left which if it all melts will increase sea level by 60 meters

    which would be a very different world


    modern society simply can not sustain the current population on that level of sea level rise
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,371
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2680/new-study-finds-sea-level-rise-accelerating/

    my guess is we are now in the fast melt period of previous end melt processes where the melt acceleration is yet to by figured out how or what created it.
    what we do know is earth was not as warm back then and the sea was not as warm.

    so we are heading into the fast melt period at a potentially exponential on the exponential
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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