Gravity slows down time.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by chinglu, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    I think the title of the thread is accurate, but this is followed by arguments about it that seem to be based on misconceptions.

    Anyway, gravity does "slow down" time, or more accurately it affects the time rate of change of everything. But the effect has to be measured by bringing clocks together, and this means moving them (you don't say?).
    Once you introduce motion you introduce another physical effect; you "break" the symmetry (of the 'global' effect of the field on local frames), by how much depends on how you move the clocks together (i.e. to the same rest frame).

    If you bring two clocks to the same rest frame, then obviously they no longer disagree about position. That would extend to positions of other apparently fixed objects, such as the sun (if the clocks are on the earth).
     
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  3. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    We already did the move real slowly thing.

    See, if you bring them together quickly, what are the times on the clock.

    If you bring them together very slowly , what are the times on the clock.


    You are trying to claim all clocks brought back together regardless of conditions will have the same time when they are re-united.

    However, since the clocks disagree on time when brought together as in the twins experiment or a slowly moving high observer, then they disagree on time.

    If they disagree on time, then they must disagree on the earth's position.

    You have solved nothing.
     
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  5. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    Are you claiming the time on an earth based clocks does not reflect the orbital and rotational positions of the earth?
     
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    It has been explained to that they do indeed disagree on the earth's position. What is the problem?
     
  8. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    Here, I will try to simplify it for you.

    You bring a traveling clock back to an earth based clock and the traveling clock is time dilated.

    The earth clock reads 12:00 am. The traveling clock reads 11:00 am.

    Therefore, if time dilation is correct, the sun must be in 2 different places in the sky.

    Since that is false, then time dilation is false.
     
  9. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    The point of my reference to sun dials is to show any claimed time dilation on clocks is a reflection of a defect in the clock just like sundials are defective clocks.
     
  10. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    That is completely ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with one clock reading different than the other. There is no problem here. The different readings do not suddenly change everything else.
     
  11. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    You cannot claim the traveling clock has a correct time when it does not correctly reflect the earth's orbital and rotational position like an earth based clock correctly reflects.

    So, if you claim they agree on the earth's position, then you must claim the traveling clock is incorrect.

    What you SR addicts have not yet figured out is that the earth's rotation and orbit is a timepiece and it is absolute contrary to the false assertions of relativity.

    Any moving observer agrees on this absolute time.

    So, if your clock claims 10 years (10 earth orbits) elapsed during your motion and an earth based clock correctly claims 12 earth orbits elapsed, then your clock is inaccurate. Its that simple.
     
  12. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    Try to understand what time means to humans.

    It means some combination of the earth's orbit and rotation.

    So, if your moving clock comes up with the wrong time, then your clock is wrong.

    Otherwise, while you were moving, the earth orbits 10 tines when it actually orbits 12 times, which is a contradiction.
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I have no idea what you're talking.

    There is no problem with the clock showing a different time due to time dilation, this is not a problem for humans, the earths orbit or rotation. It is not a problem at all.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    The clock experience time dilation, so yes, it is going to show a different time than the one on earth.

    How many fucking times do we have to tell you, that is not a problem. Clocks have nothing to do with earth's position.

    They may be timepieces to things that have not experience time dilation. That is not a problem at all.

    So what?

    Again, one more fucking time, that is not a problem because one clock experienced time dilation so it will show a different time. It's that simple.
     
  15. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    So, let's see, you claim on your trip you lived 2.5 earth rotations by your clock.

    When you return, an earth based clock reads 3 earth rotations and is correct.

    You did not leave the solar system and you have verified this also on a continuous basis.

    So, did you live 2.5 rotations when that is false since 3 rotations occurred and you know that?

    And if your clock is actually correct, you will see the sun in a different position, but you do not.

    That is a contradiction.

    So, your clock is wrong. You lived 3 earth rotations when your failed clock claims only 2.5.
     
  16. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Where did I try to claim that?
    Yep, if A is true, then A is true.
    Unless the two clocks are in the same position, or "next to" each other. How do two clocks return to the same position (a requirement so that that their times can be compared), and then disagree on that position? That's completely unlogical.
     
  17. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    ]

    You seem upset since you do not understand time.

    What does 24 hours mean on a clock?

    It means one earth rotation.

    What does one year mean on a clock?

    It means one earth revolution around the sun.

    Are you beginning to get a glimpse of reality with time yet?
     
  18. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    You are cornfused.

    I did not say they disagree on their position.

    I said over and over and over they must disagree on the earth's rotational and/or orbital position if they disagree on time.
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    So, what does that have to do with anything?
     
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    That is entirely wrong. Clocks are mechanisms created by humans, they are not tied or bound to the earths rotation or orbital position.
     
  21. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    Of course there is a problem with time dilation.

    One clock claims the earth is in one position and the other clock claims it is another.

    Now, take some time to refute this statement.
     
  22. chinglu Valued Senior Member

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    This is where you are confused.

    Let me ask you simple questions to help you understand.

    1) What is 24 hours in terms of the earth's rotation.

    2) What is 1 year in terms of the earth's orbit.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No. One clock claims a certain amount of time has passed, the other clock differs.
    Position of Earth is irrelevant.
     

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