In defence of space aliens

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    lol @ these last few replies

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    @ James - thanks for your reply. I'll respond later.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is so weird. Do you know what an ad hominem fallacy is? Did you read the definition you linked to?

    Here, I'll quote a bit for you:
    "...someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue..."

    But I could have missed it. You could show me where someone invoked someone else's personal characteristics as a refutation of their argument.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps something to do with not being able to see the forest for the trees??
    https://www.google.com/search?q=can...for the trees&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.12895j0j7
    "An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole: “The congressman became so involved in the wording of his bill that he couldn't see the forest for the trees; he did not realize that the bill could never pass.”
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    At the risk of drawing ire, condemnation, and accusations of me being in cahoots with James, from a certain party, let me say I believe James' reply to you was excellent and appeared to cover all contingencies. Just to add also, I do not always agree with James...in fact my absence from this forum for a long period was in many ways because of what I saw as James pandering to the pseudscience and crank brigade, and arguments between him and I stemming from such issues being discussed in mainstream science.
    I also believe that your own view, while admitting that there is some apparent reputable eye witness accounts, is that it is just another UFO...As James has said, that is a reasonable logical conclusion to make.

    Why am I addressing you on a reply from James? Because I see you as a reasonably logical person that the forum on the whole respects.
     
  8. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Note : DaveC426913, I will reply to this one Post. After that, if you want to discuss Logical Fallacies, it would probably be best for you to start a new Thread for that discussion.

    Yes.
    Yes.

    Let me quote a bit more from : https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
    " Ad Hominem Fallacy

    When people think of “arguments,” often their first thought is of shouting matches riddled with personal attacks. Ironically, personal attacks run contrary to rational arguments. In logic and rhetoric, personal attacks are called ad hominems. Ad hominem is Latin for “against the man.” Instead of advancing good sound reasoning, ad hominems replace logical argumentation with attack-language unrelated to the truth of the matter.

    More specifically, ad hominems are a fallacy of relevance where someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue.

    An ad hominem is more than just an insult. It’s an insult used as if it were an argument or evidence in support of a conclusion. Verbally attacking people proves nothing about the truth or falsity of their claims. Ad hominems are common known in politics as “mudslinging.” " - https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

    I could show you " where someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue.", which seems to be the definition of one of the fallacies of relevance, an ad hominem.
    See Posts: #2321(w/Strawman) ; #2323 ; #2328 ; #2335 ; #2340 ; #2353 ; #2360 and #2363 & #2364

    Note : DaveC426913, I have replied to this one Post. Now, if you want to continue to discuss Logical Fallacies, it would probably be best for you to start a new Thread for that discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 12:06 AM
  9. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Answering each bit of your latest rant is pointless, but why do you continue to misrepresent regarding that bit highlighted? How many times already? Could be signs of a medical condition.
     
  10. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    But, why?

    Correct, but...confirmation bias causes a person to not examine research that potentially contradicts that bias. I think that MR, while he might appear idealistic in his tendency to believe that ''it must be aliens,'' seems like a reasonable guy who would be willing to hear out counterarguments.

    True, but does he do this all the time? I haven't been frequenting this forum until recently, so not sure. Maybe I should read this entire thread.

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    Maybe. But, I think sometimes skeptics can come across a bit caustic, you know? Like their way is the only way, and that dismissing of other ideas, doesn't exactly make them entirely credible, either. Many skeptics refuse to look at the potential of something rubbing up against their beliefs. Confirmation bias, in a different way.

    I completely agree with you, IF all or most skeptics did just that. But, some seem to be as rigid as believers, refusing to entertain any type of evidence if it's mentioning UFO's, paranormal activity, etc.

    Why is the idea of alien life considered to be extraordinary? As a culture, we obsess over Star Wars and other sci-fi type movies, so maybe we'd like to believe on some level, that alien life exists. I agree with you, that we should't make the leap to believe any and all evidence, but to believe none, always dismissing...seems to close us off to what might be. I'm not sure honestly, what would constitute as legit evidence, that would satisfy us all here in this thread, and beyond.


    Yet, thousands of people are convicted and incarcerated based on eye witness testimony, and little else. I've always wondered why we think nothing of possibly ruining a person's life, based on circumstantial or eye witness evidence, but we refuse to believe most eye witnesses when it comes to UFO's, etc. (Although, I have my set of standards as to what I dismiss and believe, too)

    I should have read this first, before posting that above comment. lol I agree with you here, many people stand to make money off fabricating or outright lying about UFO and ghost sightings.

    So, this is where I must ask...do you believe that alien life could possibly exist?

    I'd say that I'm a skeptic at times. I don't believe most of the stories, so I hear you.

    Perhaps. But, I've seen on here in the past anyway, how rude some of the ''skeptics'' can be on here to him, and he doesn't deserve that, really.


    Let me say, I'm not completely convinced with any UFO or ghost story, but there are instances whereby I feel that some stories are more credible than others. It doesn't mean I'm going to stand outside and scream for the mothership to beam me up. Although, it's tempting
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 3:05 AM
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  11. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    ...sh...you'll blow my cover...
     
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  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Okay....


    Hmm. Good question. The idea of Big Foot living on this planet just doesn't make sense. What is it? Why does it exist? How does it exist? To my way of thinking, we should be bumping into Big Foot families everywhere at this rate. So, is there just one big, old age Big Foot walking around ...lurking in the woods...always with his backside to a camera? lol It's just too absurd to even entertain. Alien life isn't absurd to me. It's more extraordinary to believe that we humans are the only ones in this vast universe. What do you think?


    That's true. Let me repeat though, I'm not 100% on any one story that I've heard. That doesn't make me a skeptic, but I just find certain stories (not many) more credible than others.


    I totally understand where you're come from, James - but, if MR believed every story he read/heard without further examination, he probably wouldn't post what he considers to be evidence. Just something to think about.

    Yea, I don't really spend much time pondering ghost stories or alien life, to be honest. But, maybe it's sort of a hobby for MR.


    I can't say that I don't believe in government cover ups when it comes to this stuff. But, it's not something to dwell upon.


    Welp, I think I need to take some time to read more of this thread, because I wasn't aware that MR is trying to convert others to his way of thinking. I've always just viewed him posting ''evidence'' of paranormal activity, UFO's, Big Foot, etc and people making fun of him.

    I'd say that I'm a moderate skeptic in that I could believe many of these stories, with the ''right'' evidence. I'm just not of the view that we should dismiss any and all accounts, simply because the evidence will never be enough for us. Let's be real, will there ever be suitable evidence to convince us all...together in unison...that alien life exists? That ghosts and spirits lurk in the dark? Probably not. And therein lies the problem.

    Who decides?
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    If Bigfoot were alive he'd do a sex video, or at least do a selfie.
     
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  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Who's doing that?
    If I was an alien lifeform, I'd land my flying saucer on the White House lawn, plant a flag and proclaim, "This is mine." I think almost everybody would accept that evidence.
     
  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Really?

    That sounds like a good plan.
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    After some poor hiker dropped his mobile running away terrified and Big Foot worked out how to use it

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  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Lol!
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I never said that. I said as a matter of practice and common sense we believe the eyewitnesses and the people who were there over the skeptics who wish only to debunk their accounts. I mean we do this all the time don't we? News reports, accident reports, people telling us things that happened to them, historical accounts--all rest on this fundamental trust we have in the eyewitness as the one who actually experienced the event. A skeptic will immediately dismiss the eyewitness as unreliable or a liar because they don't want to believe in ufos or ghosts or Bigfoot. But how do they know that? They would have to have been there to know what the eyewitness was mistaken about or lying about , and clearly they weren't. Once again, all the information we have is what the eyewitnesses provide, plus video or photographic evidence if that's available. Unless we have a good reason to doubt the eyewitness, we generally assume they are right about what they experienced. That's just one of the basic epistemic rules of thumb by which we learn about our world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 4:24 AM
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  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps, but not in the post you actually responded to.
    So you just brought your grudge from elsewhere, here.
     
  20. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    If there exists alien life on other planets, I wonder what their evolution process looks like, or...do they resemble us?
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Because those of us who have come to this science forum are interested in science - which is about finding out what things do exist.
    Those who are interested in what might exist would find more fulfillment on a less-science-focused site.

    I can only speak for myself, but it might give some insight into others. I've discussed other paranormal events with MR at great length. There are threads here that have got to be 1000 posts long, wherein I patiently explain - again - at great length (we're talking hundreds of posts) - how memory and perception are not reliable in many circumstances, and that eyewitness testimony can be very unreliable. MR flatly denies any possibility, despite these being extremely well-documented facts. I begged him not to take my word for it, or anyone else's word for it. He could do experiments himself in his own kitchen to prove it to himself.

    MR would have absolutely none of it. He has denied the well-documented science of perception and memory recall so utterly that there is no choice but to conclude he is either astonishingly poorl-read and naive, or simply trolling for the fun of it.

    Every opponent here has been through similar experiences with him, and inevitably reaches the same conclusion. Time after time after time. You are only seeing the shorthand, because no one will sit through another thousand posts of MR being so flatly ignorant.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    They will not.

    Never mind other planets - if we rolled back time on our own planet 500 million years, and started the clock going again, even we wouldn't look like us.

    500my ago, there were a large array of body plans - three-fold symmetry, five-fold symmetry, ten-fold symmetry, even twenty-fold symmetry. Virtually all of them got wiped out, (or almost wiped out) by competition. It's just dumb luck that the bilateral quadraped form happened to get a break. If we roll back out own history and let it run forward, the chances are very high that a completely different body plan would dominate.

    This is not my opinion.

    Read Stephen J. Gould's Wonderful Life - about the Cambrian Explosion as evidenced in the Burgess Shale.

    In more modern terms: evolution on Earth is Chaotic - like The Butterfly Effect: very small changes in initial conditions will lead to very large consequences in outcome.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Your own renowned attempts at bullying here and elsewhere point to more realistic medical conditions then you could ever gauge from my ow reasonable mainstream position.
    Now again, at best this is nothing but another garden variety UFO meaning unidentified, so cut your bullshit attempt at trying to shift from your fence straddling, attempted closeted position and show that the highlighted part is false or otherwise. C' mon now old china plate, come clean!!!

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