# Insulin insult

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Write4U, Apr 27, 2019.

1. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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18,612
Has anyone ever looked at the number of people who profit on one of the cheapest to manufacture drugs,
Insulin??

My wife is diabetic and with all the available "discounts" she pays $200.00 p/mo. And as it is a biological product US law forbids the manufacture of a generic. No competition allowed. Talk about blackmail. 2. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 3. ### JeevesValued Senior Member Messages: 5,028 I just saw that same chart on a Hasan Minhaj episode last night! Ain't the pharma industry a racket!!? Write4U likes this. 4. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 5. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member Messages: 7,193 that is the American health system set up by marketing company investment bankers who learnt how to do it from the prohibition days ... meanwhile americans wont negotiate with hostage takers ... ? huh ?! medical hostages ? 6. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 7. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 A lot of people go to Canada where they can get US drugs for half the price as in the country of manufacture. Now, riddle me that one. What am I saying, half price??????? https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/blog/the-soaring-cost-of-insulin-1.4995290 Last edited: Apr 27, 2019 8. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member Messages: 7,193 legalised racketeering as a model of ideological capitalism using government regulation as a tool to prevent fair market competition under a fake supply and demand process costing. Stoniphi and Write4U like this. 9. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 I consider that Ghoulish, synonyms: macabre, grisly, gruesome, grotesque, ghastly, morbid Modern day vampires. Any wonder why Bernie Sanders is asking for socialized medicine? 10. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member Messages: 7,193 is the 1st page i decided to read from google https://www.thepharmaletter.com/article/the-drug-industry-and-the-nafta-experience what is fairly clear and you should already know is usa control of patents is a form of economic warfare no country will openly surrender to economic war yet the power and ownership of the national economy is sold out piece by piece. things like NAFTA allow large corporate to operate on a war footing in offshore markets so they can suppress the product price to shut out investment profit return so there is no investment benefit. this prevents investment bankers from diverting funds into profitable businesses to become market competitors. this is hidden behind a smoke screen of regulation and compliance systems with government subsidies used to keep the square wheels kart of a market moving on the road. even though the kart is falling apart 11. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member Messages: 7,193 socialised being the extremist propaganda word for universal health care it is the only way to deliver long term affordable health care to the average working class family Write4U likes this. 12. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 And the cheapest because it cuts out the "for-profit" middlemen and replaces it with "not-for-profit" administrative services. Plus it can negotiate the lowest prices from competitive manufacturers for 300 million subscribers. 13. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member Messages: 7,193 "profit" & "not for profit" is a game. it is a game of lies and deceit. lies and deceit set up to fool those whom pay the bill via taxes and co-pay leveraging greed against medical hostages while selling a lie all systems MUST make profit to pay for inflational costings be those research and development, or new power lines or new research labs or education scholarships for chemistry students etc... the system MUST have profit by removing the profit to play political games to sell a failed system to the hostages you are always selling something that is dying selling something that is dying means you never have to pay for the cost of sustaining the new life element that all systems run off as a form of low cost system maintenance. what political voting power do medical hostages have ? none really they need the medication so they have no choice when they have no choice they are defined by the culture to have no freedom of voter power. this is manipulated into polarized fighting sides to allow a dictator to control the corrupt system and maintain its slow death. the corruption element of the system is what makes the system slowly die but that corruption is defined as boom n bust economics underpinned by political ideological Fascist greed. naturally as the narcissistic defense occurs as the game starts to be uncovered ignorance and lack of control is screamed even louder as the leaders run in the opposite direction. why does Canada NOT make its own type of drugs at much lower cost while still maintaining a healthy mixed market economy ? what is the copy-write argument between usa and china all about ? 14. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 I'm sure they do, but if you can get insulin for 30.00 dollars while it costs 300.00 dollars in the US why try to compete. Canada has a very nice functional universal Healthcare system. That is outright theft of technology and that is the other end of the dishonest spectrum. No one wants to deny people the right to earn a living. It is the vulgar profits by unrestricted capitalist monopolies and the vulgar profits of outright theft by communist countries that I object to. Especially when it come to healthcare, a universal condition all humans will require sometime in their life. RainbowSingularity likes this. 15. ### JeevesValued Senior Member Messages: 5,028 Up to a point. Unfortunately, it doesn't cut out all the middlemen. We've got a fair bit of medical racketeering in Canada, too. Capitalism is a lot like twitch-grass - invasive, ubiquitous and insidious. You don't know the rhizomes have gotten into your vegetable bed until it's coming up everywhere. Liberal and NDP governments beat it back for a while, but then the stupid people fall for yet another Conservative promise of "more jobs, less taxes, balanced budget" - and it goes all to hell again. RainbowSingularity likes this. 16. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 Of course, but as long as we have a disgusting price difference of 10:1 for a life giving medicine like insulin, which leads to people dying unnecessarily for lack of funds, I prefer the Canadian and every other universal healthcare system which is cheaper and has better outcomes than here in the US. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...ntries/#item-overall-mortality-rate-1980-2015 Now justify that in face of the US having the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Last edited: Apr 27, 2019 17. ### Write4UValued Senior Member Messages: 18,612 No, that is not quite correct. No one proposes that manufacturers should not make a profit, but the actual delivery of health care is performed by salaried or hourly paid personnel, or fees for expert services such as surgeries. The administration of records by salaried personnel can be wholly non-profit. Unless administration is performed by for-profit Insurance Companies! I worked for 7 years for an umbrella non-profit community services company, which means we performed administrative services for community development programs, winterization of older homes to qualified applicants, and low-cost senior housing projects. We didn't make a profit on administering any of these programs, it was forbidden. Any unexpended funds were applied to the next budget. No bonuses, stock options, fancy transportation. Any travel requiring overnight stay was compensated "per diem". https://www.boardeffect.com/blog/government-regulations-nonprofit-organizations/ Normally all grants and government funded programs were allowed to use no more than 10% for administrative expenses. Any program over a million was only allowed 3 % for administrative costs. Any expenses disallowed in the grant had to be raised from private donations, but still be accounted for to the penny. Not-for-profit means Not-for-profit. But then non-profits don't manufacture anything, they perform only administrative services and all personnel is salaried. And often the Board of Directors serve for free, or are paid stipends plus travel expenses. Last edited: Apr 27, 2019 18. ### JeevesValued Senior Member Messages: 5,028 Speaking of deceit and lies, add in the fact that research is usually funded to some extent by government, whether by tax rebates, or use of educational and medical facilities or direct grants or bailouts after a failure - and nobody ever pays them back. Government contributes to, facilitates and sometimes pays for power lines outright - and nobody ever pays them back. Scholarships are funded by government, charities, trade unions, businesses or individuals - usually with some caveat attached. What the system MUST have (in order to survive) is not profit, but balance. Profit means a return that's over and above the initial investment, operating cost and maintenance.$2 goes in, $3 comes out; Daddy Warbucks pockets$1 without having lifted a finger since signing that $2 cheque. So where does the extra$1 come from?
Credit. Debt. An unimaginably deep hole that we've all been digging for 6000 years.

That's about right. Of course, even when well-intentioned reps are elected, the ones with no strings attached are in the small minority, and they're as bullied and flim-flammed by lobbyists as the public is by misinformation campaigns.

Or, as our own Trump-impersonator triumphantly declared, The Blue Wave (thet's drowning the world.)

It's partly the copyright. Also, due to long-standing trade agreements, the manufacturers are owned by multinational (or supranational) corporations and the products made in factories all over the world and shipped all over the world. It would be hard to trace the actual owners, but the biggest parent companies are US registered, so that's where they file the patents.
China routinely ignores those patents, not only in chemicals, but in everything.
Canada can't do that, given our other agreements and treaties - defense, legal, economic, immigration - and those big, indefensible borders with the US.
Plus, we don't have publicly-owned manufacturing capability; any plants operating here must make a profit, as per capitalist ideology. The two reasons the profit margin on drugs is not so outrageously inflated here are collective negotiation (as mentioned above) and strict regulation (which is in jeopardy even as we speak.)

Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
19. ### JeevesValued Senior Member

Messages:
5,028
How's that a reward? If they don't sell anything and don't make any profit, what would they be expected to pay taxes on? They're providing privately-funded services that the government should be providing, thereby saving government a whole lot of money and trouble. And I bet the salaried personnel get taxed the same as those in businesses with perks.

It's like, the government rewards homeless shelters by not charging them property tax....
...but only if they're owned by a church, and the government doesn't make a church pay property on the profitable rental properties, either.
Which makes about the kind of sense you'd expect.

20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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18,612
Insurance companies don't manufacture anything, yet they make billions of dollars in profit on exchanging money
If you don't want the government to run everything (communism), employing non profits to provide public services is the same as having the government provide those services. To the worker a job is a job, regardless who you work for. The government is also a non-profit system. And yes, everyone who earns an incomeshould contribute to the general welfare
Not quite. The non-profit I worked for had 4 low income housing projects and we provided nice decent housing for low income elderly and provided administrative jobs for 40 people (4 additional non-profit community programs ) the lowest possible government expenditure for the maximum benefits. No other social program system poses a lesser burden on society, including the church.

The church doesn't get taxed on their non-profit charitable works but they also don't have to pay taxes on their profitable enterprises......and that adds up to millions of dollars. And that is not fair. It's a preferential monopoly, due to a moral dilemma of separation of church and state.
BTW,
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2018-t...id-little-to-no-federal-income-tax-last-year/

Now there is you for profit companies, who did not pay any taxes on \$79 billion dollar profits. That's the Capitalist system for you. Fair to the rest of us??

Taxes on these companies could finance all the public support systems such as free schooling from kindergarten through college, a comprehensive free healthcare system, low-income housing, infrastructure (benefitting all transportation) and relieve tax burdens on wage earners.

Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
21. ### JeevesValued Senior Member

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5,028
I know that. And they're supposed to pay taxes on that profit. (The operative word is supposed to - they get away with murder. In the case of medical insurance, literally.) I'm saying that not taxing what doesn't exist is not a reward.
Fair enough, but then taxing that service would be wrong. So not taxing them is not a reward; it's simply their due.

Exactly. So they're not getting special rewards either.

Exactly!

You know I'm mostly in agreement with most of what you say on most subjects, right?

Write4U likes this.
22. ### JeevesValued Senior Member

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5,028
BTW - is this true? Under Obama, graduates who agreed to work at gov. and non-profit services for 10 years, and kept up their student loan payments during that time, had the remainder of the loan forgiven, and that the Trump regime cancelled that program? So, public service employees were promised a little reward, which is now being denied them. I have no trouble believing that.

23. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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18,612
I'm not sure of the length of time and if that was ever implemented, but the idea of earning credits for community service is excellent. And I believe the areas of service were supposed to be remote and under-served areas, thus providing good quality care for poor areas, on a rotating basis. Everybody wins.
There was a great tv show "Northern Exposure" which dealt with that subject. Great show!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Exposure#Reception

Last edited: Apr 27, 2019