Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. globali Registered Senior Member

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    292
    ....
    ........You are saying the obvious here. This is not something deep.


    What does this has to do with microtubules having consciousness through quantum effects?
    Or how does this relate to minerals if left together for a long time, they will self-organize to life?
    Both were experimentally disproven.
    And no, they are not logical consequences of the fact that the universe can be represented mathematically. (This is not something deep either!!!)
    You are making (il)logical jumps.
    And no, your references and videos you post prove nothing...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    I am not claiming mystery and mystique.
    Ask Penrose.
    Wrong! Abiogenesis is a fact. No mystery or mystique.
    Are you an afficionado of Intelligent Design, per chance?
    And pray tell, how can the universe be represented? And where is the illogicality in that?
    They are not MY videos. I selected them for content by established and (largely) respected scientists. If you feel THEY have nothing to teach you, I certainly cannot help you......

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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    So.......Ting! Ting! chugga chugga chugga.....

    and hey presto another 2 pages on Write4U's beliefs about mathematics as Creator.

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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    So is this reponse by you.
    Mathematics as what? Creator of what, physical patterns, abiogenesis? Anything other than mathematics and It gets mystical in a hurry......

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    Can you resolve the question? I am eager to learn.......

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  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Physics created life

    Over a certain point the inputs to the brains of the Minions who evolved looked not only outward to the Universe but inwards and examined itself

    This process we call concessness

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  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK, we're back to preaching and "IMO"s. Nothing new to see here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    Right, when there is nothing new being discussed or asked there will never be anything new to see.

    I like new stuff to chew on...

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  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    If with Minions you mean the three main processing centers in the brain, its close enough for jazz........

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    Interoception

    "I am hungry, therefore I am".
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    17,311
    Have you considered science? You might like it.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    What science? Stuff we already know and does not tell us anything new about consciousness? Or some new and fresh ideas that hold a measure of promise and offer real grist for thought?

    And before you come back with a snidely, ask yourself what do we know about consciousness? A little, a lot, anything at all?

    I keep asking and all I get is useless banalities, with some appreciated exceptions. And here I sit being accused of uttering banalities.
    At least its new........

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  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Never thought of Minions being brain structures - but it works

    Minions = humans = mobile soft sloosie stuff with a built in ability to reproduce

    Has acquired ability to note down stuff which saves following sloosie stuff the bother of doing what has already been done

    Like the jazz link, ya close enough

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  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    For me not complicated

    Its the brain looking at itself

    Example - audio feed back gives you a screeching noise

    Brain feedback gives you more questions

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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    Right, but that is produced by looping microphone and amplifier.
    The question is how does the brain look at itself? How does it produce a self-referential consciousness. How and when did it become conscious and self-aware at all?
    What and where are the brain's microphones and amplifiers that "inform" us?

    I've proposed a possible available answer, which Hameroff proposed from his in-depth brain research and which has prompted Penrose to come up with ORCH OR. This hypothesis is vigorously disputed, but no alternative has yet been offered, AFAIK.......

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  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    It's impossible for the brain NOT to be aware of itself

    Feedback is the key

    Problem with feedback is, colloquial speaking, overload or over thinking

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Cite ONE paper on brain research, in-depth or otherwise, that Hameroff has authored.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    I can show you the places where he studied and what he studied and the books he wrote.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff

    Ultimate computing
    http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/content/ultimate-computing-s-hameroff

    I don't know if writing a book is equivalent to writing a paper, but it's obvious he is a prolific writer and not just another flash in the pan.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    11,481
    That's more or less what I expected.

    You claimed Hameroff did in-depth brain research. But you have no evidence he did any. So instead you come up with masses of irrelevant stuff in its place.

    Any journalist can write books on a science topic that interests them, and many of them do, some of which make excellent reading. But they are not original research.

    I do not believe Hameroff has done any brain research at all. All he has done, I suspect, is have some speculative ideas. That is not research, needless to say.

    If Hameroff had done some original research on Orch-OR, he would have had to generate some observational data in support of his hypothesis. But he hasn't. He seems, instead, to spend his time hosting flaky conferences to which the likes of Deepak Chopra are invited.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    .Well, that is denegrading the thing he is actually "most" qualified in. He is an anesthesiologist, the person that renders your brain unconscious. I would assume that involves the study of the brain and exactly what part you can render unconscious without killing the patient.
    That's not quite like changing the oil in your car.

    I would assume that all those books contain the sum total of his knowledge. Why do you only show one book? The list shows he wrote eight books on various aspects of cell behavior.

    But I'll dig further for any "college papers"

    Well, here is a list of papers by Hameroff.
    https://link.springer.com/search?query=stuart Hameroff
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,777
    Some other interesting development:
    https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Stuart_Hameroff
     
  23. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    11,643
    Please shut up.
     
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