Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. river

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    The faster you go , the less wisdom you find .
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That depends on the program. Humans also have to learn (acquire) wisdom from study and observation, self-programming. But AI like Sophia can be programmed to always ask questions about everything, just like a small child at first, but at ever greater sophistication.

    The more data the brain can process, the more paralell referential data it can store and the deeper paralell research it can perform in a short time.

    Today's chess computers are beating our Grand Masters. Their speed allows them to test (calculate) all possible answers to the opponents possible moves, several moves into the future.

    Deep Blue
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)

    Deep Blue was programmed to learn from each game it plays.
    So, if an AI is granted access to all the great thinkers, there is no reason why a computer should not be able to base decisions on available wisdom, if it is logical.

    Logic vs Wisdom - What's the difference?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Sophia is a cool AI robot. The trick is to cram as much data into small spaces. For its size the human brain is incredibly efficient as a data processor.
    That's the one thing which restricts current robots . But the the more powerful and faster we can make the AI, the more data it can store and process in small spaces. It's not that far around the corner, IMO.

     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  7. river

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    Be careful of speed and data processing . They do not necessarily lead to wisdom .
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That may be true, but slow and ignorant is a sure recipe for disaster...

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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Just one clip about Sophia, and more which involves contributions by Hanson, Mossbridge, and Hameroff, and a more in-depth exploration of current technology and knowledge of what causes consciousness and paralell processing of several different sensory inputs.

     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It is a terrible data processor. It is a remarkably efficient inference engine. Which is pretty much the opposite of computers, at least until about 20 years ago.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    An interesting article on; Cell Migration
    Abstract
    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-cellbio-101011-155711

    and the role microtubules play in cell migration; Microtubules in Cell Migration
    Abstract
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6823166/
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It depends on what you mean by "data" and "processing" and "inference engine", no?
    Yes, when we (our brains) started developing AI, self-referential (inferential) computers. That was 20 years ago!

    This is the definition I use to base my value of "data" on; Data processing
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_processing

    In humans this data organizing center is made up from microtubules, the MTOC (microtubule organizing center). See post # 1510
    http://mtoc-explorer.org/

    The human brain is not a purely electronic processor, it is an electro-chemical processor, which means it can process chemical data as well as electronic data, which IMO, allows for emotional experiences, a chemical response mechanism, such as production of pheromones or endorphins, to data, which produces a meaningful experience, an ability which AI does not posess, yet.

    Smell you later! Chemosignals communicate human emotions
    Date: November 5, 2012
    Source:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121105140407.htm

    p.s. did you notice that Sophie now uses a cloud which connects her with other AI and can use their collective stored information to reference against her own? All she needs to learn is how to ask the question, no problem there!

    IMO, the implications of that are astounding. Now AI are no longer restricted by "memory space". In a shared "cloud" they have unlimited storage capacity and potential access to all internet referential "data".
    Of course, humans also have the ability to access the Internet "cloud" . We just cannot do that as fast as electronic computers.

    In fact, even using paralell circuits, it takes a human +20 years to store sufficient data to allow its own brain to be able to draw inferences from it's stored memories against received sensory data.
    And even then it is a "best guess" (inference) by the brain. Anil Seth.

    Using the cloud, an AI could potentially learn this much in a day at the much greater processing speed than human brain, but until we can program "emotion" (reward incentive?) into AI they can only express programmed "pseudo-emotional" responses to received sensory data. Sophie is actually pretty good at that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. If you use the definitions of those words, then my statement is true.
    ?? This has been true for about 15 years. Alexa is an example.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK
    Yes, diversification of AI functionality is about on the right track. Another 10-30 years and AI may well have reached "maturity" from "infancy". Same as a human child. Of course, humans have to start from scratch everytime they are born, whereas an autonomous AI has access to all information contained in the cloud the instant it is activated.

    It's quite possible that AI may lead us to understand how "consciousness" itself evolves.
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Here it is;
    Comparative Studies of Microtubule Mechanics with Two Competing Models Suggest Functional Roles of Alternative Tubulin Lateral Interactions
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3379015/
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A microtubule 'roadway' in the retina helps provide energy for vision

    Isolated Goldfish Retinal Bipolar Cell (IMAGE)
    ROCKEFELLER UNIVERSITY PRESS

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    CAPTION;
    Fluorescently labeled microtubules extend from the tips of the dendrites (top) into the axon and down into the giant synaptic terminal (bottom) of a single isolated goldfish retinal bipolar cell. A loop of microtubules encircles the inner plasma membrane of the terminal and anchors mitochondria.
    CREDIT
    Graffe et al., 2015

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-06/rup-am062415.php#:


     
  17. river

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    To your last statement

    How would ai do this ?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Interoception and Visceroception. Humans have both but visceroception is a subconscious ability, used only by the brain for autonomous monitoring and controlling of organ functions.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interoception

    An AI would be able to access this control mechanism and study it's properties and functions.
    i.e. humans have no sensory perception of individual cells or neural synapses. An AI would be able to actively monitor those areas of sensory perception.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  19. river

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    Which changes every millisecond .

    The autonomic parts of the Brain are subconscious for a reason Write4U . So you don't have to be aware . So you can think of other things .
     
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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Some interesting optical illusions, involving the transmission of data via microtubules and showing the limitation of the brain in being able to process certain types of information.

     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Will the Octopus ever cease to amaze and delight?

    Analysis of Microtubules in Isolated Axoplasm from the Squid Giant Axon
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4460999/bin/nihms695239f1.jpg

    Open in a separate window
    Figure 1
    Flow chart for preparation of axoplasms.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4460999/
     
  22. river

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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This thread is not about mathematics. It's about Microtubules..

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