Paranormal feelings

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by wegs, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Didn't Houdini make a promise to someone [his wife?] that he would come back and make contact after he died?
     
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    On Halloween 1936, Bess and Saint conducted a "Final Houdini Séance" on the roof of the Knickerbocker Hotel in Hollywood. At the conclusion of the failed séance, beside a photograph of Houdini, she put out the candle that was said to have burned for ten years. In 1943 she said "ten years [was] long enough to wait for any man. wiki
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    it is a very big subject to just lump together for a concept of "belief"
    like saying nuclear physics proves we can travel faster than light
    it does but it doesn't
    applying a faith based approach to encompass several different subjects into one belief seems counter productive to establishing fact
    many western and south American Christians like to believe there is truth to the subject to support their religious beliefs.

    but they perceive it as a religion not a science
    even though they apply it as a fact

    is it a feeling ?
    or is it a scientific factual event that others can physically experience ?

    what if ...

    people could create ghosts ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  7. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Watched an interesting documentary about ghost activity, and the general consensus is that it's all in our heads. We may think we see something, but it's not what we think. Although, the debunkers had a tough time explaining away some of the mysterious ''orbs'' that appeared in random photos.
     
  8. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    "Glitches in the Matrix" by definition have to defy calculability so as remain non-scientific or outside the system of regularities that an existential domain adheres to. So I'm not sure such could ever be validated to my complete satisfaction, especially since there should always be a "within the workings of the system" explanation accompanying those supposed "paranormal" situations. Even legit glitches would have to be "repaired" by revisions in memory and the past, or whatever prior-in-rank approach behind appearances.

    When not a malfunction or rare probability event... Then such an illegal (in terms of Nature's rules) agency or "message" intruding and supervening upon corporeal circumstances would either be converted into the mechanisms of the latter (disguised) or be "written in" prior as part of the overall "story" (preset). Deciphering it would be wholly dependent upon the recipient(s) happening to have the right decoder or interpretative framework.

    Humans depend upon concepts for understanding, classifying, identification (what am I perceiving?), and policy response. Concepts are general, and dependent upon description or communication patterns, thereby often treated as immaterial and superimposing on concrete, particular things and the latter's relationships and structural complexes. Some of these concepts and principles are more helpful, valuable, and productive than others when overlain or applied to physical objects and surroundings (though few may be universal or immune to context).

    Similar to conceiving the disfiguring or the tearing down of statues as a belated materialization of abstract "justice", the occult concept is a traditional background theory or cultural idea that people project upon certain events and private sensations to interpret slash categorize or explain them, and occasionally it may guide their actions. It can be variously recruited for profit, as a catalyst for socializing (like-minded group gatherings), psychological ministrations ("_X_ is still around after death, I saw a sign"), etc.

    Profuse fraud and deception along with the anomalous nature and predictability problems of these belief frameworks heavily undermine them as anything that the administrative and expertise levels of a community should be depending upon. In contrast to scientific oriented explanations that are more reliable and part of the efforts of an enterprise whose replicable ventures can be usefully harnessed. I.e., the latter are successful because they DO conform to a reality's establishment or official programming, how it normally operates.
     
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  9. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Glitch happened right here. Deleted duplicate post.
     
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  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Believe in what? That's not an expression of sarcasm, it's meant in all seriousness. When people say 'paranormal', they might mean all kinds of things.

    Believe that uncanny experiences happen? I already believe in uncanny experiences since I've experienced them. However my feeling that something is uncanny is subjective and doesn't really say very much about the objective world. So I'm inclined to give these psychological explanations.

    Believe that apparitions and other anomalies may exist objectively? I definitely hold open the possibility. But I have a much higher skepticism threshold when the phenomenon is supposed to be objective.

    Of course this objective alternative is going to be very diverse.

    There might be objective apparitions that reduce to mundane explanations. I'd expect this happens fairly often.

    And there might be a residual class of apparitions that has a supernatural explanation. While I'm inclined to believe in the possibility of the supernatural for philosophical reasons, I'd be very doubtful in particular cases. I can't think of any that have convinced me that what I was experiencing transcended physical reality. The transcendent is epistemologically problematic by definition. If we experience anomalies, how can we ever know that they had a supernatural cause as opposed to a currently unknown natural cause?

    Which leaves the crucial question that is usually ignored. Even assuming that something weird exists or is happening in objective reality, and even assuming that it is supernatural in the philosophical sense, what is it? Assuming for the sake of argument that it is supernatural, how could we ever know what it is?

    Experiences of the uncanny require further interpretation before they become 'ghosts of the departed' or whatever they are supposed to be. That's where my doubt is greatest. I flat out don't believe in ghosts in the spirits of the deceased sense. Addressing your question, I'm not sure what it would take to convince me. That's more of a psychological question than an epistemological one I guess.

    I'm inclined to think of the spectral vapors sort of 'ghost' as a holdover from obsolete biological metaphysics prevalent in ancient times. People thought of life in terms of some supernatural life force that animates physical bodies and makes them sentient. Then they associated this life force with the breath. So the idea took hold that when people die, their last breath carried their life force away from their body to wherever it was headed, the afterlife. And the belief took hold that this last-breath of the departed might linger around the place of death, particularly if the death was unjust somehow and the deceased had unresolved issues regarding it.

    So we have supposedly haunted houses where murders took place and the victim's ghost lingers.

    Well, I don't literally believe any of that and consider it folklore. Fascinating folklore, but folklore nevertheless.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I got a sign from my just deceased mother on Christmas morning 2013. We had agreed she would do something with technology but nothing too scary. I was in her senior center room with her. Only moments after she passed the nurse's cellphone rang once and I returned it to her. (I don't know how to operate cellphones). It was immediately noticed that the caller ID was my mother's name "Lisa". I knew that was my sign. I highly recommend if you have a relative or friend who is near death that you ask them to give you a sign. Apparently such things are not verboten on the other side.
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Ghost in the system

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    on that note of ethereal turmoil
    anyone know what happen between 30 & 32 hours ago from the time of this post ?

    was it another almost nuclear launch ?

    maybe someone got sparkling water instead of still water and got a bit light headed

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    fantastic design i must say
    would love to sit right in the middle with an international interpreter
    and a bucket of table tennis balls to throw at people who started falling asleep
    2nd note
    interesting to think some of these people possibly are carrying the covid19 virus
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Questions:
    • Where was your mother's cell phone at the time of the call?
    • Did the nurse know anybody else called "Lisa"?
    • Was the number that called your mother's cell phone number?
    • Was your mother's phone switched on at the time?
    • Was a call billed to your mother's cell phone at that time? Did you check the phone records?
    • Who observed the called ID? How many witnesses were there to this incident?
    • What did the nurse say?
    • Why did you have the nurse's cell phone?
     
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  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Your real name would not be D Thomas perchance????

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  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Well, for the sake of this thread, the definition is considered to be anything outside of scientific explanation. To be clear though, this section isn't about spiritual or religious experiences, there's another sub-forum for that. In terms of this discussion, I'm specifically asking about ghost activity and is there such a thing, or is it all in our minds?

    Many people feel as you do, but what is interesting is how many believe in the reality of ghosts. Reality is a strange thing, though. Is reality only based on tangible, material evidence of something, or does it also take in the things we cannot see? (our perceptions, opinions, values, experiences, etc)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Paranormal experiences are products of the brain and not based on normal sensory data.

    Remember that the brain does not know anything about reality except from the data it receives through our senses.
    Even then the brain can only make a best guess of the sensory data. This guess is not necessarily accurate.

    Descartes' "brain in a vat" proves the brain's isolation from reality except as translated from the body's sensory mechanisms. Optical illusions are but one example.

    OTOH, the brain has great flexibility and capacity for "imagination" and "speculation", that's how it learns.

    This is how it can detect a word from other noise, if it is given clues.

    Anil Seth demonstrates both the limitation and the flexibility of the brain here.

    and if you have already seen this, here is a litte different approach;
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Where was your mother's cell phone at the time of the call?

    My mother didn't own a cellphone.
    • Where was your mother's cell phone at the time of the call?
    See above.
    • Did the nurse know anybody else called "Lisa".
    I asked her and she said no.
    • Who observed the called ID? How many witnesses were there to this incident?
    • What did the nurse say?
    Me and the nurse I handed it back to.

    • Why did you have the nurse's cell phone?

    The hospice nurse called and wanted to talk to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Did you know anyone with the name "Lisa"?
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..
     
  20. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I believe you, MR. Why? Because you seem to be a rational thinker who doesn’t have any reason to lie about what you perceive as valid experiences.

    If I ever see you on the Discovery channel however...

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  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    YES, cannot be otherwise. You can, or at least your body can, fool yourself/itself by putting together totally different aspects of its/your perceptions

    You go to a so-called haunted house, what do you expect? a haunted house right? So you feel a chill in the air, brain looks around, discards breeze, finds ghost cause air to go chilly, this fits the situation, passes ghost cause air to go chilly up the conscessness ladder, bingo YOU are stuck with a feeling there is a ghost here causing the air to go chilly

    No it does not take in things we cannot see (perceive). How could it? It can and does construct false narratives from bits and pieces of a vast reservoir of memories in storage

    Never ever heard of ghost, then I bet you will never think of ghost and your experience of a chilly breeze will never be put down as being caused by a ghost

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  22. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Well, there’s a difference between linking every “unexplained” phenomenon to paranormal activity and completely denying that the possibility may exist.

    What would be helpful, is if some of these ghost hunting shows were to invite a skeptic to tag along, you know...for checks and balances.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    You really think a Ghost Hunting TV show would want a skeptic along?

    Hunter (to the camera) - You can see here the galvanometer quantum osserlometer needle is oscillating with a frequency associated with ghost

    Skeptic - The voltmeter is picking up static from the flickering fluorescent light

    Such a program would be lucky to have a audience if it got to a second episode

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