Physics question related to the geography of the Bay of Fundy?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 7, 2021.

?

Could high tide levels be up by a meter or more near Truro, N. S?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
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  3. I have got to do some research on this... I think the answer is more complex!

    1 vote(s)
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  1. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    The following quotation:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods


    Might be the source for the statement by Mr. Gershon Gale in this article:

    Expanded Discussion of The HAB Theory
    Gershom Gale gershon1
    @netvision.net.il

     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_HAB_Theory

    The HAB Theory is a 1976 science fiction novel by American author Allan W. Eckert. The novel is from the apocalyptic fiction subgenre. Eckert believed that the real-world facts and conclusions he quoted in the novel, were worthy of further exploration. One such conclusion was that hyper-specialization in the physical sciences was a big problem and that more interactions between hyper-specialists was overdue. He wove facts and concepts into the novel form, then his 17th book, to get more minds considering them. The book explores a version of pole shift hypothesis postulated by Professor Charles Hapgood in two volumes, plus the 1967 book Cataclysms of the Earth by Hugh Auchincloss Brown.

    When Brown published "Cataclysms", he was in his 90s, so he is represented in the novel by the character Herbert Allan Boardman (The "HAB" of the title) also in his 90s.
    ---
    sounds a bit religious cult-ish to me
    dressed in a new suit

    this guy ?
    https://www.jpost.com/christian-in-...m-gershom-gale-editor-jpost-christian-edition

    bring that back to the bay of fundy for me please ?
    whats the connection ? or did you change subject ?

    gentrification of the bay of fundy ...
    big money for sure

    global real-estate has always been big money

    many liars have used religions to make money by lies and deceit

    what is the link to the bay of fundy ?
    are there church extremists looking to make a big buy out in some huge racketeering tax evasion bullying thing ?

    whats the deal ?

    with such massive movement of water they could have built turbine clean energy production in the bay by now
    but who would they be competing against ?
    republican coal miners and their votes

    better off to watch the whole planet burn with climate change
    their actions speak louder than their words
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
    Dennis Tate likes this.
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  5. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    At least some science fiction is written by an author who uses art to attempt to warn his audience about a possible future trend that actually is of genuine concern to the writer????

    The connection between the statistics on a large amount of H2O being ADDED to Antarctica with the Bay of Fundy is.........

    IF it was the addition of H2O to Antarctica that has been keeping ocean levels relatively stable since decades........ then......
    the threat of significant rise in ocean levels in the future becomes more real to us.

    I am fairly certain that about fifteen years or so ago I read a statement by Dr. James Hansen that the last time that atmospheric temperatures rose by three degrees..... ocean levels rose by twenty five meters in about four centuries.

    The Bay of Fundy and Anchorage both will be acting in the role of the proverbial Canary In The Coal Mine....... they will warn the rest of the world of impending rising ocean levels because the tidal formula there can have such a multiplier effect on high tide levels that you will likely read new stories about Anchorage Alaska and the Bay of Fundy before other area are hard hit by rising ocean levels. So the whole question does have a positive side to it.
     
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  7. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    One of the forms of evidence that has causes many well informed people to be worried about some variation on HAB Theory is that there are frozen tropical species under the ice in both Greenland, the ARctic in Siberia, the Arctic in Canada as well as under the ice in Antarctica.

    What may be most relevant are the cases where the mammoths are frozen with green grass or other vegetation still in their stomachs that one would not associate with where they were found. That indicates a rapid freezing which would fit with a significant wobble or shift in the north and south pole.



    5 FROZEN MAMMOTHS You Won't Believe Were Found ❄️

     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,299
    I think it will have the opposite effect.
    I think, as sea levels rise, tidal funnels will see reduced effect.

    When I fill a 5 gallon pail with a garden hose, the water is far, far more turbulent when the bucket is shallow. As it fills, there is more water, but the effect of the pail's dimensions (such as the bottom) have an ever-decreasing effect on the flow and turbulence of the water. By the time the bucket is only a quarter full, the surface is flat.

    This shouldn't be too hard to demonstrate in a shallow wading pool. Make a funnel shape, fill the pool 1/3rd and then send a wave of water at the constriction. Then fill the pool to 2/3rds and repeat.
     
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  9. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    I truly thank you for your suggestion on how to attempt do demonstrate this with a real model!!!!

    That is a truly awesome idea that I will try to pass on to physics professors and teachers.
     
  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Here is a film that puts this whole idea in perspective.....


    https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1888337987911


    When could Nova Scotia become an island?
     
  11. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Although this is not directly related......
    the indirect connection is there.


    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/melting-i...MKnOcwE-OrSwj0V1yP3Al8h3lDOtnBHSvt1_9nkCKJiTC

    Melting ice shifted the Earth's axis, scientists discover

     
  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    Deliberately turning deserts green through large scale desalination of ocean water is one part
    of the solution.... but so is the idea of putting carbon back into the soil.

    Once carbon is back in the soil... all plants in all nations can hold in more carbon.... .as well as more H2O.

    Permaculture.... as well as mega-scale desalination of ocean water... as well as all that is being done through the
    people introduced in "Kiss the Ground".... all of this are steps in the right direction that tend to make real estate vulnerable to rising ocean levels at lot safer.




    Kiss the Ground Film Trailer (2020)
    687,784 views
    •Aug 20, 2020
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,143
    So you wish to create more carbon, while destroying large carbon sinks, to create another carbon sink...? Not to mention destroy massive eco systems and affect ground water, water tables, etc..

    Arid regions, which cover about 47 percent of the earth’s land mass, are thought to make up the world’s third-largest carbon sink on land.

    The world has a lot of endorheic basins in arid regions, including the Okavango Basin in southern Africa and the fast-disappearingAral Sea in Kazakhstan. In the U.S., the Great Basin Desert in Utah, Nevada and Oregon is an endorheic basin. Streams and rivers flow into the basins, but instead of flowing out, they disappear underground or simply evaporate.

    As the world continues to warm, climate change may affect the water cycle, reducing the ability of desert basins to act as carbon sinks. Carbon that would be naturally stored in the soil may return to the atmosphere as soil moisture evaporates in higher temperatures.

    [....]

    Desert basins can lose the carbon they’ve stored as the climate changes because rising temperatures can cause soil to release the carbon it holds back into the atmosphere, Yu said.

    Both global warming and water use for farming and industrial development can change the water cycle and reduce the carbon deposited in the soil, he said
    .
    [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/desert-basins-may-hold-missing-carbon-sinks/]


    Explain why you think turning already large carbon sinks into carbon sinks, but destroying eco systems and putting thousands of species at risk of extinction, is viable to you?

    The Kiss the Ground documentary is about farming practices on land that is currently used as farmland.. Not turning deserts into green spaces with "large scale desalination of ocean water"..

    You want to create more carbon sinks? Plant more gardens and plants outside. Get rid of your lawn which takes up too much water to begin with. Plant a meadow that is suited to your climate or shade trees or turn your garden into vegetable gardens.

    More green spaces in cities. Encourage more people to grow their own food to reduce land clearing for food production and tilling the soil on a massive scale to do so.

    Unfortunately, Kiss the Ground seems to avoid most of these normal and more helpful recommendations. Just as it completely failed to address Trump's disastrous policies (this was made during his presidency) which directly affected climate change and contributed to global warming.
     
  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    When soil has been turned darker it is because it has taken up more carbon. Cattle and other animals play an important role in getting carbon into the soil through their manure.

    When soil gets more carbon and becomes darker the plants there grow larger and hold in both more carbon as well as more water.




    Carbon Farming: Harnessing The Power of The Soil
     
  15. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    When Dr. Geoff Lawton began his project in Jordan the area shown here was
    barren. He talked the locals into giving up their custom of burning the left over straw
    from the last crop and instead use it in the form of a mulch.

    They found that that
    mulch / compost helped keep the moisture in the soil and so ten years later they now have
    lots of trees in an area that was once nearly impossible to grow much of anything there.




    Greening the Desert: Tree Tour


    Here is a video of what this same area looked like when they began. The first seven minutes of this film are the best.




    Greening the Desert Video - Parts I and II (French Subtitles)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  16. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Once the Permaculture project there in Jordan proved that a nearly dead area could be made productive several neighbours caught on and applied those principles on their land.



    Permaculture Neighbors at the Greening the Desert Site
     
  17. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    He explains the logic of using swales to reforest various types of degraded landscapes in this lecture.



    Swales: Earthworks for Conservation and Storage [PDC Preview]
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,143
    That's nice.

    And nothing to do with what I actually said.

    Since this thread now has nothing to do with physics, moving it to a more appropriate sub-forum.
     
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  19. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Good point... it probably does fit in better here........

    I think that Mr. Allan Savory would agree with this choice.....




    How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory
    4,564,705 views
    •Mar 4, 2013
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,143
    You still aren't addressing what I said.

    Here is the post:

    Can you please explain why you think destroying one of the planet's carbon sinks, making desalination plants (which will create more carbon btw), to make another carbon sink?

    You made this claim:

    Deserts are suspected of being one of the biggest carbon sinks because of underground aquifers that is stored deep underground. Disturbing the sand or these arid regions or attempting to tap into the underground water would actually increase the risk of releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere.

    Not to mention turning deserts into farms using desalinated water would destroy the eco system altogether.

    So, why do you think this is a good idea?

    Particularly when one considers the impact of desalination to begin with:

    But the process of desalinization burns up many more fossil fuels than sourcing the equivalent amount of fresh water from fresh water bodies. As such, the very proliferation of desalinization plants around the world‚ some 13,000 already supply fresh water in 120 nations, primarily in the Middle East, North Africa and Caribbean, is both a reaction to and one of many contributors to global warming.

    Beyond the links to climate problems, marine biologists warn that widespread desalinization could take a heavy toll on ocean biodiversity; as such facilities' intake pipes essentially vacuum up and inadvertently kill millions of plankton, fish eggs, fish larvae and other microbial organisms that constitute the base layer of the marine food chain. And, according to Jeffrey Graham of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography's Center for Marine Biotechnology and Biomedicine, the salty sludge leftover after desalinization for every gallon of freshwater produced, another gallon of doubly concentrated salt water must be disposed of can wreak havoc on marine ecosystems if dumped willy-nilly offshore. For some desalinization operations, says Graham, it is thought that the disappearance of some organisms from discharge areas may be related to the salty outflow.

    Can you please address what is written instead of just preaching at us with youtube videos?

    Thank you.
     
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  21. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154

    On one level I believe that solar powered desalination technology has amazing potential.

    The Sahara Forest Project that was done with technology donated from Israel to Norway so that Norwegian scientists and diplomats could share the technology with Israel's neighbours who could not at that time deal directly with them is a great example of solar powered desalination.

    So your idea that this creates a lot of extra atmospheric carbon is based on the assumption that desalination can only be done using fossil fuels.

    On a second level every cubic meter of desert that is greened seems to be putting less heat into the atmosphere than if that same land was merely sand. Secondly..... plants are both a carbon sink as well as a water sink so turning deserts green seems to be win - win - win - win from just about every angle that we can look at this question from.


    https://www.saharaforestproject.com/
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,784
    Sand has an albedo of around .4. Forests have an albedo of about .1. So forests will absorb 4x as much heat as sandy deserts.
     
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  23. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,143
    Depends on the plants..

    Although China’s Green Great Wall tree-planting efforts—similar to sustainable forestry practices in Western Europe and tree regrowth on abandoned lands in Eastern Europe—enhance our planet’s ability to absorb atmospheric carbon, greening achieved through intensive agriculture does not have the same effect, says Victor Brovkin of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, another coauthor on our paper. Instead, carbon absorbed by crops is quickly released back into the atmosphere.​

    And it still does not address the destruction of ecosystems.
     
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