Politics and Climate Change

Discussion in 'Politics' started by geordief, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Just the probabilities. They are less common, and the underlying natural signal seems normal according to most of the papers.

    The point is: it's basically irrelevant. AGW is the dominant factor, and if the run into a long warming has also begun it would just be a bit more bad news to add to the threat assessments.
    This is our first AGW. And the planet's.
     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i would say an awful lot more
    a very awful lot

    meanwhile the science deniers are claiming the best thing to do when your running out of road is to hit the nitros button.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In the long run. It's slow, comparatively.
     
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  7. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    We (and other life forms) have time to adapt to natural climate cycles,I would have thought.

    MMGW would be like shooting up recreational drugs in comparison to ,say smoking weed (no personal experience of the former ,thank God).
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    :Which makes modeling a tad problematic...
     
  9. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Less problematic than the politics.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Yep.
    That may be why the science folks have been downplaying and lowballing and underestimating, rather than raising more urgent alarms based on what's happening in the field.
     
  11. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. You can model the outcomes of various megatonnage of nukes, before you actually drop them.
     
  12. geordief Registered Senior Member

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  13. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    It's better than sitting on your hands, but ultimately ineffective.
    Alberta, very badly hit by the effects of climate change already, looking inevitably at more and bigger blows, is about to elect a far right premier who will fight for more tar sands extraction (which has already poisoned the water it hasn't used up) and pipelines (to China, which isn't speaking to us atm).
    This is happening all over.
    They don't have to make sense; they just have to sound tough.
    Scared people are stupid people.
     
  14. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    Ineffective because the numbers/support aren't there or because it is intrinsically ineffective?

    Surely the former because most worthwhile change may have come from outside the established political systems. (they are the tip of the iceberg)

    Does there come a point where political activism gains traction ?
     
  15. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Ineffective in countries with bad governance, because the activists are silenced/intimidated by government agencies; marginalized/ derided by the commercial news outlets; their concerns "noted" but never acted-on.
    The support of large numbers can't materialize as long as this concern is posited opposite economic well-being and public safety.
    Scared people are stupid people.
    Bad governments make it their mission to keep people scared.
    The migrants are coming! The migrants are coming! vs the sky may fall in the foreseeable future

    It can't come from any other source on a scale that matters.
    It can be done by governments that give a damn

    It's half melted underneath and washed up in NY harbour, but the mayor was running for other office and didn't have time to deal with it.

    Where it could, it has. The next step is panic and riots.
    No, the next step is shooting immigrants, all militarized borders, mass internments and expulsions. Then the panic and riots.
     
  16. geordief Registered Senior Member

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  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    For the environment, probably. But for the Finns, who knows? Can these parties agree on anything else, like economics and immigration?
     
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    We just had our hottest April Night ever. ( radio reports at 8 am) It is Autumn here.
    I guess it is only when the people demonstrate they are willing to make sacrifices that the governments will have the courage to take definitive action.
    A few more extreme heat nights and there will be people on the streets screaming for action as the threat becomes real and imminent ...but too late unfortunately.
    The governments need to do what they can to minimize GHG's but also start to build enviro shelters, enviro cities etc....because in less than a few years we are all going to need them.
     
  19. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Because the ones who raised an early alarm are still being blamed for inaction by politicians and business.
    Going against short-term self interest is always a no-win. :
    If you overstate or estimate on the high end, "Aw, you're just being hysterical. Can't expect us to listen."
    If you understate or estimate conservatively, "There's plenty of time to collect conclusive evidence."
    If you keep collecting evidence and recalibrating your predictions accordingly, "Well, make up your mind! Is it twenty years of forty?"
    If you work out careful formulas, patterns and models, "How do we know your figures are accurate?"
    If you dump all data on their doorstep, "Who can make heads or tails out of this jumble?" or worse, "There's a discrepancy in the temperatures for Alice Springs over a hundred years. Therefore, the whole thing is bogus."
    If you don't release the raw data, "What are you hiding. Conspiracy!"
    When the evidence overwhelms their levees, burns down their vacation homes, blows away their seaside hotels and paralyzes centers of commerce with blizzards, "Why didn't you warn us?"
     
  20. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, btw, another domino: Alberta (of filthy toxic tar-sands infame) just elected a majority conservative government with an openly racist fathead as premier.
    I wonder what BC will do with all the refugees.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    It seems that use of air conditioning is a significant cause of global warming.
     
  22. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    and will increase because of global warming, which will accelerate global warming, etc.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Protests Calling For Climate Action Disrupt London For 3rd Day
    Protesters demanding government action on climate change disrupted traffic and public transit around London on Wednesday, the third day of climate demonstrations in the capital.

    Activists occupied four of the city's landmarks and thoroughfares: Oxford Circus, Marble Arch, Waterloo Bridge and Parliament Square. The actions closed 55 bus routes and affected a half million people, the Metropolitan Police said Tuesday. Police have made about 300 arrests since protests began Monday.

    Extinction Rebellion is the group behind the protests, and on Wednesday, it called for light disruption to the city's rail service.

    Two activists climbed onto the roof of a train in the Canary Wharf district, unrolled a banner that said "Climate Emergency – Act Now" and glued their hands to the top of the train. Authorities climbed up, applied solvent to the activists' hands to unstick them, and lowered them from the roof in harnesses. At Waterloo Bridge the day before, police worked to remove protesters who were glued or locked to a truck blocking the road.
    src: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/17/7143...-climate-action-disrupt-london-for-third-day/
     

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