Prejudice and Bigotry in Law Enforcement

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    I think I can say that if a white person walks down a street in a state with open carry laws, with an AR-15 strapped to their back, the outcome will be vastly different than if they were black, when the police arrive.

    The police will talk to the white person, but will pull their guns and tell the black person to get down on the ground, is one vastly different outcome.
    But that obviously isn't because America is a racist nation.

    Yeah . . .

    The black person might realise his life is in danger; maybe they wouldn't strap an AR-15 to their back for fear of the police just shooting them instead. But not because America is racist. Oh no.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    You watch too much TV. The case of the police isn't the same as the case for the nation. If I was just talking off the top of my head (like you) I'd probably say the police are out of control as well.

    That's different than saying "America is a racist country". But with a little more research I'd say that although there are some racist police that's not what's going on overall. Most police aren't racist and even those who are racist aren't going out to kill black people.

    The problems with the police are too little training, no ongoing mental evaluations and no independent reviews when things do go wrong. In addition to that there is no independent review to look for how to make things turn out better the next time.

    The numbers don't bear out your views. More unarmed white people are killed by police. Of course more black people commit violent crimes so their chances are higher. Out of a population of 350,000,000 "only" 9 unarmed black people have been killed and only 20 unarmed white people have been killed this year.

    It's a concern, it's just not the epidemic often portrayed and it's actually more of a police abuse of their authority and a lack of independent review problem.

    That's not what you want to hear so ... rant on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    First, I start a relevant thread.
    For a 29 year old in the year 2001, what happened to his parents in the 1960s is the primary determinant of his economic status and financial options.
    If he's black, for example, his parents had no house equity or other significant investments to borrow on to give him a start. Also, most banks will not loan him money on favorable terms. And he is dealing with the effects of substandard medical and dental care - which have become too expensive to deal with at this stage of his life.
    After that and the many other racism-dominated factors (such as whether or not he has a criminal record) have had their influence, he will have passed his legacy on to his children of today - in terms of wealth it will be on average less than than 10% of a white child's legacy, due mostly (the evidence indicates) to the cumulative effects of centuries of racism.
    No, they didn't.
    Look at specific examples, and see for yourself. Start with the demographic distribution of heavy metal poisoning in the US.
    Either that or he listens to black people, reads history, reads research reports, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,021
    Not what you want to hear (anecdotal after all) but my next door neighbor is black, in his 60's, has a house which (in Seattle) is worth a lot. His kids (grown) have started small businesses (not high tech but lawn care). He does fine and they do fine.

    I cut down a tree in my yard today with a bow saw (slow boat to China) and after it came down he offered over the fence to come over with his chain saw and cut it up in 20 minutes. I thanked him of course.

    Yes, it's anecdotal, he is probably an Uncle Tom right and he is my token black but I'm in my 60's, grew up in the South, was in junior high when integration started and the blacks in my school when from 0% to 50/50.

    I've lived all over the country, am educated, have met many "blacks" over my life and am not racist in the least, am informed and you really bring very little to the table other than ignorant name calling.

    Off topic, how's the new tractor working out?
     
  9. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    6,930
    So that explains the vastly different outcomes between a white person carrying an AR-15 in public, and a black person doing the same thing? The black person can feel comfortable about this though:
    So if they fear for their lives because they're black and openly carrying an assault rifle and they know that black people commit more crimes, that's something that isn't backed up by the statistics?
    I almost feel like asking why the police don't tell the people they point guns at and tell to get down on the ground, that they have a low statistical chance of being shot . . .
    You'd think the police would promote such a helpful bit of information like that.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So?
    If you are not actually racist in person, that's great. But I'm dealing with your posting here - your endless speculations about other people's personal circumstances have made enough of a joke of you that I don't want to emulate the tactic.

    You are posting ignorant racist bullshit, reams of it, in this forum. You aren't posting anything else. Now you are telling us about your friendly black neighbor - are you filling out some kind of racism bingo card and feel compelled to check all the boxes?

    Do you understand that almost all older black people in the US have racist white neighbors/co-workers/classmates/etc with whom they get along "fine"? An adult black person in the US pretty much has to be able to get along "fine" with white racial bigots - the kind of people who think of women with five different baby daddies whenever they think of black women who aren't physicists.
     
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  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    As usual, you offer nothing other than to repeat epithets and very little else.

    You're sure that it's impossible to be black in the U.S. and to get ahead, why, because you are sure, that's all. Pretty empty headed but you're a "social warrior", right?

    Do you have any practical experience or are you a basement dweller also?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    1) Yes, it is what's going on overall. That's the problem - that's why the riots in the streets are going on overall. You need to do some of that research you keep threatening us with.
    2) So?
    The thing about the rotten apple excuse is this: when the citizen has to deal with the police, they never know whether they are dealing with the bad ones until it's too late. And when it's too late, there's no one they can call - the good cops who would save them from the bad cops are never around, for some reason.

    The cop who killed George Floyd had more than a dozen verified complaints of abusive force on his record, several of them overtly racial - he had never been arrested for any of them. All the alleged good cops knew about him - but that didn't help.

    Because however many good cops there are, they never seem to be able to do anything about the bad ones. It's almost as if one rotten apple has spoiled the whole barrel.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I'm what?
    You say you're educated, but you can't read. I've been posting in very simple English sentences - anyone with a high school education should be able to do better than that.

    And anyone with your track record should have learned better than to wander that far out on the limbs of the dumbass tree.

    The thread topic - there is one. Try to focus.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    23,406
    You have clearly not bothered to read anything that was linked, none of the studies and instead, you are still posting the same white supremacist right wing bullshit talking points that are and have been proven false and wrong.

    You are racist. Your arguments and your posts have outed you.

    And it is deliberate. It's not based on ignorance. It's based on your deliberate desire to be racist. It is insidious as it is repulsive.

    You were provided with link after link of why racism is the cause of the disparity. You keep saying it is not and have not offered anything in support of your claims. You haven't bothered to read what was linked. Hence why your racism is so deliberate.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The city of Seattle has the same difficult situation with its police as the city of Minneapolis, if the reports are accurate.
    And people there, like the people in Minneapolis, are gradually coming around to the only measure that seems to have any chance of solving the problem:
    https://crosscut.com/2020/06/time-abolish-seattle-police-was-yesterday

    The thing is, as the advent of the phone camera is making obvious to everyone except the American "conservative", if your "police" are treating people like this you don't have a police force at all, in a technical sense. Police by definition enforce the law and thereby protect the citizenry. Financing vigilantes and organized thugs by taxation does not make police of them.

    And if you haven't got a police force, you might as well not pay people to pretend to be police officers. It's an expensive charade, and lots of vigilantes will beat people for free.
     
  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's the problem. More vigilantes will beat people for free. You might even get a beating and then you'd actually have something to complain about.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    All you've got going for you is repeating "racist". Posting 10 links isn't making an argument. You haven't addressed any question that I've asked in any of my responses to you.

    That's generally what you do in your responses to anyone's post. Intolerant name calling is what you've got and that's not a lot.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    ah yes grammar nazidom the last refugee of anyone who doesn't have an argument. doesn't change the point you are racist and classist as all hell.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    you talk a lot of shit from someone whose entire argument is predicated on pretending the gini coefficient isn't a thing.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't "pretend" that income inequality doesn't exist. Outcomes are guaranteed to be equal. If you work at Walmart and I'm an engineer, incomes aren't going to be equal nor should anyone expect them to be. A black person working at Walmart makes what a white person makes at Walmart (with the same experience level).

    You are the one, apparently, talking a lot of shit as you so eloquently put it.
     
  21. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,021
    I have plenty of arguments as you've noticed. You on the other hand have vulgarity.
     
  22. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Not a lot to laugh about here, but at least this was funny:
    Says the guys who certainly seems to struggle with reading comprehension, and cannot paraphrase another poster's words if his life depended on it.

    So, again, do you have any evidence or citations, at all, to support your supposed "arguments" here? 'Cuz all I'm seeing is this:
    Once again, this is a discussion forum: people generally don't bother responding to YouTube videos presented as "argument."
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,349
    So you do recognize that the people getting beaten by vigilantes have legitimate complaints.
    Progress.
    Now all you have to do is recognize that those uniformed guys who are beating people are supposed to be policemen - they are drawing a paycheck on the presumption that they are enforcing the law. So whoever is paying them should stop paying them, and find better uses for their money - such as reducing crime, and seeing that laws are enforced.
    Yeah, it was.
    They were links to evidence of realities that conflicted with your assertions, in posts combined with reasoning that conflicted with your claims, and since you have provided no evidence in support of your assertions and no reasoning in support of your claims they (and several others) currently hold the floor.
    Citation required. Where are these "arguments" we are supposed to have noticed?
     

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