Racism is dead right?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by sifreak21, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. charles brough Registered Senior Member

    This is a science thread so why not take the subject scientifically? No one here has!

    What is the basis for racism?

    Why does it not only exist but persist?

    What is the only eventual solution?

    I remember my mother being prejudiced against the Japanese because of WWII. She would not hire a Japanese gardener. This attitude was absorbed into me from her but not to Japanese but blacks ("Afro-Ameicans"). However, I entirely rejected it intellectually. So, it is complicated! I would never treat anyone differently based on race and have indeed had good friends of all races and religions. Once a black individual asked a question of another man in line ahead of me. Afterwards, the man answering the question turned to me and bragged that he had lied to him. It made me sick. Yet, I once went into a maket in a black neighborhood and felt totally estranged, uneasy because I was the only whiteman there among the many there. When you travel to other countries, they call it "cultural shock" but it has as much to do with race as culture.

    Can anyone come up with answers to the three questions above? I bet all of us would like to see answers!

    I hate nit-pickers!
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  3. yaracuy Banned Banned


    Well, I am probable considered here as a racist , but in reality IO am not sure .
    I like black African music ( from Africa ) I dislike very badly Afro American
    music( current ) yet I like the blues .
    Tu a great extent I sympathized with blacks cause in the early 1960 , Then come the BURN BABY BURN and other riots. I become cautious were to buy property , and since then I discriminate against blacks.
    Yes I know there are nice Afro American people ( those above 40 years old ), but they don't keep their segment of the society civilized.
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  5. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

    Culture war. The reason it is often attributed to race is because culture results in dress and behaviors that are often dominantly used by a particular race.

    Cultures are inherently incompatible so they end up fighting for dominance. When multi-culturalism is enforced, all the cultures involved naturally tend to segregate and distrust each other peacefully; however, the moment that enforcement lapses then the cultures begin battling.

    That depends on what the problem is. What is the goal and what is the obstacle that is preventing the achievement of that goal?
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Random Thoughts


    I would suggest, though, that it is possible that many cultural differences arose in part because of particular differences from one group to the next, as we progress from families and clans to tribes, nomadic and eventually sedentary, evolving into villages and up to modern states. We see in the world social groupings in various stages of societal evolution, and in some of them outsiders are left wondering just how two rival groups are different beyond the cultural; indeed, it is cultural insofar as it is a traditional mistrust of people who bore very subtle differences, be it wider-set eyes or a stronger brow ridge and chin, that were more easily marked in ancient days when localized gene pools were more apparently, phenotypically, restricted.

    Even in modern humanity, the psyche tends to grasp after as many justifications as it can. It is not an impossible proposition that we retain in our comparative faculties certain instinctive proclivities that, logically, we find absurd according to present circumstance. I can be in a roomful of acculturated Asian Americans, so that the conversation is without accent and of no different content—beer, sports, politics, mild existentialism—and yet it feels different. Maybe it is that the cheap beer would be a different cheap beer; maybe it's because no Asian ever took a swing at me over ethnicity; but in no reasonable way can I rule out the possibility that I am responding instinctively to increased homogeneity.

    To the other, put me in a roomful of traditional Japanese and I'm a fish out of water. Same with my Norwegian side, though my affinity for Ballard is entirely cultural.

    We are, I hope, ever moving toward a condition in which diverse cultural blocs can coexist without the urge to convert, devour, or annex one another.

    One of the challenges of such an outcome, though, is that diverse societal endeavors apply diverse philosophical outlooks that progress according to their own courses, in relation to circumstances, such that the fundamental cultural currencies compete. One way to look at a particular situation is to suggest that we in the post-Christian West have yet to successfully explain to our Muslim neighbors why apostasy is the way to go. Once they figure that out, Muslim cultures will be all in with liberty, philosophy, and modernity again such that will unquestionably define the identity politic. Indeed, such a transformation could have ripple effects sufficient to crack the ossification of certain institutions in the West that seem, more and more, inflexibly plutocratic.

    It's a fascinating drama to watch; it's just so damn slow, which is probably for the better, because it spreads out the body count.
  8. charles brough Registered Senior Member

    Very good; I'm impressed. :bravo:Myself, however, I use the world "ideology" instead of "culture" because cultures are framed by the ideology, "religion" or "ism" that seperates them. The common ideology or world-view and-way-of-thinking of a people causes them to develop their seperate culture. And, despite the intent of these ideologies to be "universal brotherhood" in type, there is a natural human tendency for them to become limited to a single race.

    The ideological-culture systems fight for dominance, as you say! I agree. They can even be described as social organisms which, like all life, push for territory or dominance.

    Yes, you see the goal as the problem! Brilliant! Each ideology-based society has different goals than the others. All have now tenatively absorbed Western
    secular ideals and goals with the result that a tentative world unity exists, but when or as it weakens and fails, the old basic religious goals become the main focus again. In a world armed with nuclear weapons, that could be disastrous.

    We need a universal, non-theistic ideology that is able to spread across the world and replace the divided and devisive old faiths and unite it. It would need to be based upon such goals as racial equality, the ultimate expansion out into and coloning of space, building a new civilization, and the birth control limiting of population growth, etc.:cheers:
  9. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    incite racial tensions? ur kidding right if this was black kids beating a woman or a white male it would be all over the news
  10. charles brough Registered Senior Member


    I don't recall ever staring a thread that had so few respond but with those who do, do with such clearity and insight. Usually, there is a run of "wise-cracks" as the "professional students" of our liberal arts educational age and who "have learned how to think" struggle to impress each other.

    Above, the spread of the size of "society" (that is, the largest "group" we feel apart of) grew from the size of the hunting/gathering pack because we learned language and with it, learned to use it to build ideological systems that took the place of the innate, small-size social group. This group-size growth began approximately 40,000 years ago with the CroMagnon.

    For our continued survival, we humans will ultimately have to end up with one ideology and one society.

    In your second paragraph, I propose that reaction of the old faith is already growing and, unfortunately, it is Secular Humanism that is weakening. The world population of Muslims is growing at a faster rate than that of Christianity and the other major ideological systems. This is because of major weaknesses in our secular ideology. Also, we have no serious prospect of ending Islamic reaction and terrorism. One problem is that I secular goal is "the pursuit of happiness" and "the American dream." Corportate advertising has shaped our "culture" into a mass materialism, one of consumers collecting "stuff." Corruption grows and social problems have proliferated. All this is sapping Western strength. It is US power that the secular system depends upon. Secular ways spread across the world because people could see that "it worked." It made us "the strongest power on Earth." We became the alpha male holding our "group" (the world) together. The decline of the US means the decline of the whole civilization.

    I myself think that when conditions get bad enough, people will open up to a new ideology that is advanced enough to spread to every continent and unite people across the globe into a single new society. It could be like a United States of the World with one central government over those of each state--like we have in the US.

    It seems impossible, but it has happened before. That is what happened with the spread of the montheistic ideologies one to two thousand years ago. They replaced the old polytheisms and united much larger areas of the Earth than did any of the older systems. I think next time, it will be a non-theistic ideology.

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    I hate nit-pickers!
  11. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    wow that is one of the most racist posts the last part of your post.. u have any idea why there aren't educated? have you seen the a majority of the poorest areas are areas where blacks live and dont have the money to become educated.

    that mindset that you have is what is wrong with the world. i am educated and know how to turn a cheek when called a nigger, the problem is if i were to get pissed and react in a hostile way i would just be proving you right so instead i have to just smile and keep walking.. police have even seen it they do nothing. and you can go to poor white, yellow,and purple neighborhood she would experience the same but to judge people because of there skin color is just straight ignornace
  12. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    this has nothing to do with your post all your doing is getting defensive and pointing the finger trying to play the victim, the fact is there are racist people of all color, i have come to terms with it and will just turn a cheek.. the issue comes here

    if im in a public place and called a nigger people might turn and look, i smile and walk away
    if im in a public place and called a nigger i react im seen as the aggressor
    if i call a white person a hillbilly. i will get yelled at things might get physical

    as here because the victim was black it was turned a cheek.. if the man was white the kids were black this would be all over the news


    this shows what the problem is.
    the white male had 100 people passed him in an hour only 1 couple tried to stop him others just watched
    the black male wearing same type of attire within seconds he is confronted a crowd gathers and things almost get physical
  13. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Really? Wow, my dad was a Cherokee. His Indian name was "running back for seconds".
  14. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Oh yeah I am that hillbilly you dislike so much . That is the prob right there . You think of us as trash you can throw away . That is the world sentiment mind set that is all fucked up . I was going to write some real nasty shit that would of scared the fucking shit out of you , but I read the guys post that started this thread and by his example I decided to not post it . If he can control him self by his intellect I thought maybe I could give it a try too. Your skating on thin ice Yaracuy. I hope your big and strong cause that attitude is going to get you in big trouble in little china .
    I think I will check the ban list see if you are banned yet . You should be.
  15. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    thanks me-ki
  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    It's not something that is going to disappear like a light switch being turned off. People of my generation (1943) see a tremendous improvement in race relations in the USA. At that time racism was institutionalized by the government in most of the USA! Afro-Americans were restricted to separate restrooms, water fountains, etc. in public buildings! Their children had to go to separate schools which the government insisted were "equal," but they were inferior by every measure except the quality of the dedicated and hard-working teachers.

    In private settings the discrimination was much worse: there were entire stores where they could not shop, restaurants where they could not eat, parks where their kids could not play, theaters they could not attend. In movie houses they had to sit in the back, and the same for buses. Only Afro-American taxi drivers would stop for them, and they had to sit in the front seat. They could not apply for most jobs, and certainly not for any with a good career path. Very few universities accepted Afro-American students.

    It was very dangerous for Afro- and Euro-Americans to date, and if it were a male Afro and female Euro it would very likely end in violence or even murder, especially in the South.

    That said, I had a very unusual upbringing for a Euro-American in my era. My parents went out of their way to not teach me racism. When I was seven my mother took me to the hospital where my father was staying for a few days, and it had a playroom for visiting children. A group were playing in the center and I started to walk over to play with them. My mother stopped me and said, "Fraggle, see that little boy playing all by himself in the corner? Why don't you go play with him, he might be lonesome." Hey sure, why not? We had a great time. He didn't look like me but he was a nice kid. It took me a long time to realize how remarkable that was--in Chicago in 1950!

    Then we moved to a small town in Arizona, and an interesting thing about the region that used to be the Frontier was that they still had the old Frontier sense of survival and ethics: If you could carry your weight you were okay, and it didn't matter what color your skin happened to be. There was some racism there, but it was at the individual level. Some places wouldn't let Afro-Americans in, and the city government didn't interfere, but other places didn't care. The schools were even integrated, long before Brown v. Board of Education.

    It wasn't until I was a teenager, and my sense of ethics and morality was well established, that I heard my parents slip up a couple of times and make racist remarks. Then I realized that they couldn't help being who they were, but they knew it was wrong and they didn't want me to grow up like them!

    Quite a gift. Unfortunately they were complete failures as parents in many other important ways, but in retrospect I'll always be grateful for that.
    As Ras Tafari Makonnen put it:
    In Latin America, racism is directed heavily at the native peoples, not so much against people of African ancestry. In most places, anyway.
    He's one-sixteenth. That qualifies him for "head rights."
    Homo sapiens is a pack-social species, like wolves, lions, gorillas, etc. Until the Neolithic Revolution created the first food surplus in the history of the planet, our Paleolithic ancestors hunted and gathered for survival, and they required a certain size range to provide enough food for their tribe. During a bad year, neighboring tribes would try to encroach on each other's territory, in order to satsify their hunger. This made them mortal enemies: any food taken by another tribe meant that someone in your own tribe might starve to death.

    So we have an instinct to regard people outside our own gene pool as hated and feared competitors for scarce resources.

    Humans have always been more complicated than that because our enormous forebrain gives us the ability to stifle instinctive behavior, and there's plenty of evidence that during good times tribes did indeed get along peacefully, trading crafts and having festivals together where they'd mix up the gene pool a little. Nonetheless, that pack-social instinct is there and during bad times it percolates right back to the top of our priorities.

    The problem with civilization is that there's always something wrong so our pack-social "bad times" instinct is always fighting for dominance, and it's ridiculously easy for us to regard people who are obviously not members of our own "tribe" as hated and feared competitors.
  17. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Yeah, not buying it. They do have a really obvious, sometimes-hilarious complex about insisting they aren't racist though.
  18. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    i couldnt agree more FR and am not expecting it to be over soon fact is there are millions of people out there that think racism is non exsistant now adays and that couldnt be further from the truth
  19. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    There is a growing number that want it to be over. Sweep it under the rug , bury in the sand , wish it away with out having to get there hands dirty . Buy there way out of it . All kinda folly going down here . The fact is it takes hard work to get to know who your neighbor is. It is true though ! Call Me a racist for saying it if you want . Most black people have rhythm. I like to think of it as more of a blessing than a curse . The rest of us would do good to understand the rhythm of time . It has been tremendously good for me and my personal happiness . Euphoric is the best description I can come up with . The sound will blow you away if you just do a little ear training you will see the brilliance centered around the harmonies sound of music. Us Musicians are communicating world wide if you did not know . Yeah we are making a consorted effort to fuck up your mind set good . Sub conscious suggesting that will change the way you think for ever more . All there is to do ids for you to drink our water . Drink zee wata before wez slap you "racist one" Open those pretty little lips of yours and drink. dink Me Whiskey Jim Greathouse good . You know there are lots of Greathouses that are black . Mohammad Ali the fighter his grandma was a Greathouse. Yeah I feel a connection to her in a funny sort of way as no one and I mean no one knows what it is like to be a Greathouse except a Greathouse . Expectations comes with the name . Why do you think Mohammad Ali went around saying "I am The Greatest" ? I tell you what he is and was our hero as children . We would listen to the fights on the radio with anticipation. When he didn't go to war it was all confusing to us little kids. Now I am older I respect his decision to do what he did . He stood up for what he believed in. Taking a stance right now in this moment in time is critical . You all know how civil unrest is growing . As I have stated many times now " somethings you can't buy your way out of and now today maybe we can look upon one of those very things I talk about . Dignity knows no color, it only knows it is wrong when it is not given. Going to burn it down . Didn't say a word. Only mystery I heard . Going to burn it down
  20. arauca Banned Banned


    Lets look at the Spanish population they come here poor only with their shirt on their back , they are discriminated , but in my 50 + years in this country , I have seen they made an economical progress in their community, they work hard, they move into any community and many are accepted. The Spanish American have a discrimination problem , but they are overcoming it by hard work and not by crying , they improve the community were thy live,
  21. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Umm... are you talking about Mexicans?

    Because that is not an accurate description of the circumstances of Spanish-Americans, in my experience.
  22. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    I think that is so weird Me X I can and they celebrate Me birth day and dedicate it to construction workers . Don't you all think that is weird. I got a natural X in Me birth day . It is produced by time pattering of the old phone home phones . Make an X on the old phone and what do you get 1,5,9 and 3,5,7 or Me way of saying it 5,3, 1957 or like some of you other nations might say it 3,5,1957. Is that weird . Can I make stuff up like this ? God I would be one fucking smart dude if I could all make it come together like that . No I think the world calls me to preform in this profound way. I am plucking as fast as I can Mom . That was for Lori 3,5,7 . She said Pluck mother fucker pluck . I still get a big laugh over that one . Oh shit Lori you are way to funny . She understands the Great House . I got another Friend . He was born in Japan no less . He is the one that really opened my eyes to the Great House . His middle name is "Early Greathouse " can you believe that ? Michael Early Greathouse Spratling . That fucker is one smart dude . You all would do good to understand that Man . He twisted me brain to better ways as I hope to do too by his great example . I follow Him in his Mind set . How the hell Lori got there I will never know . God talks to her is all I can figure . Or she hears the peripheral noise and interprets it . Maybe it is in the Music . Yeah it is . Drink Me "racist ones "
  23. jaboo Registered Senior Member

    The large part of racism is over. Racial segregation is over for example.

    However in some developing countries like in Brazil for example there is still some employment discrimination in hiring against black Brazilians. Some black Brazilians also face police oppression (also called police brutality). I think this is rarely the case in the more developed countries like the United States or Canada.

    While racism is by and large over, there are still other problems some individuals have to face like unemployment, disability, poverty and exclusion from society.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011

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