Record cold and snow in Brazil

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by sculptor, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Such as by discontinuing the mass combustion of fossil fuels as quickly as possible, and obtaining energy from the better (and cheaper) sources ready to hand.

    One advantage of adapting on purpose and under control like that, gaining advantages and saving money and living better as we go, is that it would avoid some of the major disasters that would be nature's standard way of adaptation (too late to avoid all of them, but we should take what we can get).

    In Abrahamic terms: God helps those who help themselves, the world is good as created. In Confucian terms: do not do unto others what you would not have done unto yourself. In Taoist or Buddhist terms: That art thou, love and care for the world. In Hindu and animist terms: willful destruction accumulates bad karma, care for the world and it will care for you. In humanist terms: deliberate cruelty is insane, greed is self destructive.

    In everybody's terms: the world is not yours to ruin.
     
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  3. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    No, a rock hit them, nothing to do with Dinosaur Made Climate Change.
     
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  5. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sure you made great use of fossil fuels and/or products derived from fossil fuels.

    Even welding gives off climate change gases. So if you think you can go carbon free or feel you're in a lofty position to dictate how amazing you are and how dreadful everyone is, I think you need to get a grip and sort yourself out because you are deluded, big style.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,717
    OK you don't understand what happened to the dinosaurs then.

    Don't you think you would be more credible if you got the basic facts right?
    Of course. Most industrial processes do. The goal is not to stop all emissions of greenhouse gases. The goal is to get emissions down to the point where the natural processes of the earth (photosynthesis, weathering) can handle them.
     
  8. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    Which will never happen. Concrete to create hydro power damns belch out co2. The list goes on and on. The earth will never "handle" the extra co2.

    You're holding overly-simplified beliefs and you hold them with excessive confidence.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,717
    We've heard things like that for centuries.

    Some of my favorites:

    1876: “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication.” William Orton, President of Western Union.
    1889: “Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever.” Thomas Edison.
    1899: “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” Attributed to Charles H. Duell, head of the US patent office.
    1903: “The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty - a fad.” President of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Company.
    1921: “The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to no one in particular?” Associates of David Sarnoff.
    1926: “While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility.” Lee DeForest,
    1932: “There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.” Albert Einstein.
    1936: “A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth’s atmosphere.” New York Times.
    1946: “Television won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.” Darryl Zanuck, film producer, co-founder of 20th Century Fox.
    1961: “There is practically no chance communications space satellites will be used to provide better telephone, telegraph, television or radio service inside the United States.” T.A.M. Craven, FCC commissioner.
    1977: “There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home.” Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corp.
    1981: “Cellular phones will absolutely not replace local wire systems.” Marty Cooper, inventor.
    1989: “We will never make a 32-bit operating system.” Bill Gates, co-founder and chairman of Microsoft.
    1992: “The idea of a personal communicator in every pocket is a pipe dream driven by greed.” Andy Grove, CEO of Intel.
    1995: “I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse.” — Robert Metcalfe, founder of 3Com.
    https://news.mit.edu/2019/carbon-dioxide-emissions-free-cement-0916
    I believe in people, that they will (with enough support) do the right thing. That's already happening.

    In Norway, 85% of new car sales are EV's. Even in the US, which has become resistant to new technologies, 2% of the cars sold now are EV's - and that is climbing rapidly. In California, which typically leads the nation on this, 8% of new car sales are plug-in.

    Solar is expanding like crazy, as is wind. The problem is no longer how to get enough solar or wind energy - the problem is what to do with all the power it produces in the middle of the day.

    Coal plants are closing left and right in the US and Europe, and being replaced by gas plants (cleaner) and renewables (much cleaner.)

    You can deny those things all you like, and predict nothing will ever work. Just stay out of the way of the people who are making it work.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    But I don't, obviously.
    So you'll have to launch your stereotypical wingnut personal attacks from some other idiotic presumption. Try the pages of them posted by the other members of your Tribe here, for inspiration.
    Nonsense. It already is handling a lot of the extra CO2, and could handle even more with a little help. Get the human release rate down to the level the sustainable sinks are already handling and we could turn our attention to mitigating or adapting to the disasters we have already waited too long to prevent.
    Failing that, just slowing things down a little would save us a lot of money and hardship. There is no reason whatsoever for continuing the current human release rate of CO2, let alone the current acceleration of it - it's mostly just inefficient fossil fuel combustion anyway, and we should be cutting that by 2/3 on ordinary economic and public health grounds, never mind AGW. There are many reasons we don't want to become a sort of First World Paraguay or Brazil, which making climate change refugees out of 8 - 12 % of the population would risk.

    It takes hundreds of millions of dollars worth of advertising every year to keep US citizens financing their current level of CO2 release - and then there's the medical bills, dealing with the inconveniences, living in the debris, subsidizing the industries involved, etc. So that might be a reasonable place to start - similar to the restrictions on advertising booze or tobacco (we still subsidize them, but the principle is clear - no?).
     
  11. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    The UK booted up a coal plant recently.

    Thank goodness that things are getting warmer, saving me a fortune in heating. Into September and it was 30c today in the UK. Not having to put logs on the fire due to the heat is helping my carbon footprint, so you'll be happy.
     
  12. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    I aim my replies at idiots.
     
  13. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    Just think, warmer climate, less heating bills, lower co2 output. Win win situation in my book. I don't have to buy as many logs.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    6,950
    More cooling bills. Have you thought this through at all?
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,717
    Yep. There are always going to be people who are backwards. There are still people using slave labor, too. And I bet they boast about how it saves them money!
    Although the floodings, deaths and diseases are not going to be so much fun. These people, for example, may not thank anyone,

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...eaths-set-to-soar-as-uk-summers-become-hotter
    Who are apparently the only sort you are able to communicate with.
     
  16. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,024
    Both you and billvon have taught me something today. I can kind of agree with both of you in a way.



    https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/02/25/carbon-dioxide-cause-global-warming/
     
  17. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I don't have air con
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    So are you going to single-handedly stop global warming?
     
  19. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    Coal powered plants are not backwards, just those that believe all the silly graphs. Modern day slavery exists, rather than derailing, set up a thread on the subject.

    Flooding, deaths, diseases etc.. have been going on since the dawn of man. Again, there are idiots that believe those from the last handful of decades are responsible for the full history of mankind.

    And yes, I'm replying to idiots.

    The climate idiots suffer from the replication crisis, many scientists can't replicate their findings and peer review never try the experiments etc.. to confirm the scientific paper. Then the climate idiots regurgitate these as fact, but they're just copying and pasting crap. Apparently, some 150 years of weather recording completes the picture from when the earth was formed. It's like recording your heart beat for 15 mins and then claim that data is representative of your heart in your lifetime.

    Nevermind, only the foolish are panicking.
     
  20. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    230
    Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs was just a film. The weather will continue to weather, whether you feel you can control the weather or not. If you want to change your lifestyle so you feel honourable to Meatballs, knock your pan in mate.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,950
    So, no response?

    You implied that global warming is a good thing because of lower heating bills. It's becoming clear that you haven't thought that through.
     
  22. Benson Registered Senior Member

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    Global warming and global cooling has been going on for billions of years. Global warming and global cooling will continue for billions of years. If crustaceans, monkeys, man, mosquitoes etc.. do things that speed or slow what the planet is going to do, then the planet will do what it wants to do.

    So if you want to avoid concrete, air con, burning logs, welding, ICE vehicles etc .. that contribute to co2 output, then knock your pan in. Don't bank on me, I'll just continue to soldier on while the climate alarmists and extinctionists piss their pants and glue themselves to railings, roads and windows.

    We are still in an ice age, the tail end. There's still ice on the planet. The South pole has been a temperate forest in the past, and it will do so in the future. If it happens 10 years, 50 years or 100 years sooner, only the alarmists and extinctionists think it's a fucking big deal.

    If you feel i've not thought anything through, you need to shove your bullshit up your arse.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,717
    They are dirty and inefficient, and they produce a lot of CO2. They are backwards.
    And I bet you think that slavery is progressive and efficient, too. After all, labor for super cheap! (if you ignore the downsides)
    Yes, they have. They are just happening more often now due to AGW.
    Uh - no. You are making things up again. Did you get that from FOX News or something?
    You are having trouble understanding that the climate is warming? Go talk to people in Portland or Seattle.
    You don't know what you are talking about, do you. You are just reading denier propaganda and parroting it here. Doesn't really work on a science board.

    The basic science is pretty simple, and consists of:

    1) CO2 is a greenhouse gas that traps heat and causes bodies within that CO2 to become warmer. Fact. You can do the experiment to prove this in a high school science lab.
    2) We are emitting gigatons of CO2 and significantly raising the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere. Fact. This requires nothing more than math and direct observation of CO2 levels.
    3) The climate is warming. Fact, supported by actual temperature measurements.
    4) As the climate warms, the atmosphere evaporates more water from the ocean. More water in the air = stronger rainfall events. Simple meteorology.
    5) As the oceans warm, they expand. Simple physics. And thus the sea level rises. Simple observation.

    Which of these do you not understand? Don't go look up the latest meme on FOX News, think for yourself. Which of those are you having trouble with?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021

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