Reparations.

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Write4U, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Bred and sold like cattle......

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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    By giving money to largely white men (the corporations that benefit from stock purchases).
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No one is giving the rich any money. They already have all the money.

    Except that this time the little guy also benefits when the corporation does well.

    p.s. government bonds might be a good alternative?
     
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    How about we tax those corporate profits and use the money to ensure our school systems have adequate resources?
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I have no objections to any of your suggested universal social/economic programs for all, but they do not specifically address the specific wrongs inflicted for centuries on a specific minority.

    Keyword of this topic is; "Reparation" for specific wrongs, not "Recognition" of universal rights.

    I'd love to see the US be founded on equitable social/economic programs, just like the rest of the "civilized" world.
    But universal social/economic programs is a separate conversation and belongs in a separate thread, IMO.

    If someone wants to address that, I'll be happy to contribute my two cents worth.
     
  9. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Refraining from comment or suggestion.
    Asking a compound question:
    How would it work?
    Step by step, from the beginning.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know, that's why I invited comments on the idea, hoping that others might offer insight on the potential socio/economic obstacles v the potential social/economic justice.

    So far it has yielded some interesting perspectives.
     
  11. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    No, I mean, if the scheme is adopted, how is it carried out?
    What are the actual mechanics. Who gets how much through what procedure?
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Somehow this is what Georgetown University came up with.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/geo...elming-favor-27-fee-slavery/story?id=62316394

    As I posted before, if this modest amount would be assigned a 7% interest over 200 years, each recipient would receive a handsome reparation for that "human market value" plus interest from that time until today.

    By my reckoning, that would translate into about 16,000 dollars. If invested in a secured blue chip market investment, or government bond, this would be a solid basis for a more secure financial future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  13. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    2,571
    That's the how much. (It's funny math, given the value of 1865 $ compared to a current one, what a class action lawsuits would get you for that kind of damage, and fluctuating interest rates, but OK)
    Next: Who gets it?
    (PS I've had my cataract surgery and can now read regular-sized font.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Correction: that interest rate should read 3.5% , doubling time of 20 years, instead of 7 % with a doubling time of 10 years. That would yield an astronomical figure....

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    The descendants get the income, not the capital.

    p.s. You better check the "exponential" function when dealing with a fixed rate of growth over a fixed period of time.

    Your figure is hopelessly false. That 16000 figure is based on a 3.5 % growth rate p/year over 200 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  15. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, the poor and minorities would benefit the most, and it's not being done now. It's not universal, since schools are usually funded through property taxes.

    But here are some more suggestions:
    Low interest college loans.
    Free high speed internet.
    Free cell phones.
    Free gas.

    And you have to be African-American to be a presidential candidate. At least until there have been as many black presidents as there have been white ones.
     
  16. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    O-kay....
    I have no figure. With some hesitation, I accepted your figure, because it's not the crux of the matter. I'm asking about the mechanics of the process.
    Next part of the question:
    Who are "the descendants"?
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Start a thread on universal socio-economic solutions to wealth disparity. This one is called reparations.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Plantations kept meticulous records on their slaves. The were a financial asset to the plantation.
    Apparently Georgetown College kept accurate records of their sales of slaves, they actually came up with an average figure on the market value of a slave.
    And all religious Missions kept very detailed records of their Indian and black slaves, I know that for a fact.

    Any claims could easily be confirmed or denied. Black families usually do have some idea about their slave ancestors.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I have noticed that regular fonts are often easily dismissed. Speed reading has distinct draw-backs to understanding.
     
  20. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    As I said, I accepted your figure.
    What claims? This is what I'm asking. How easily can claims be confirmed?
    Having 'some idea' who your ancestors were is not a legally applicable standard. When governments dole out large sums of money, they usually demand something more concrete.
    Ben Carson probably qualifies; Barack Obama doesn't, and neither is terribly hard up. A lot of people with similar pigmentation do, while a lot of people with similar pigmentation don't qualify; some wouldn't bother for the pittance even if they qualify, while others would leap at easy money even if they don't.
    So - How does the process work?
    How are claims made?
    How are identities verified?
    What percent slave ancestry do you need to prove?
    Do you get double compensation if your parents had one slave ancestor each, or quadruple if both parents had two slave ancestors, or what? Because a lot of people's American ancestry begins with one slave and one slave-owner, and that's one thing they might not have kept meticulous records about. Later on, many people married, or neglected to marry, or were barred from marrying many other people who had no slave background, and many people immigrated voluntarily from Africa and the West Indies, and their ancestry might not be all that simple to trace.
    The criteria for eligibility and the requirements for proof can affect the number of recipients by a considerable margin, so
    the process is significant.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I just told you. The slave owner's records themselves.

    We are not talking about the origin of million year old fossils.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and we'd hate to be inconvenienced, don't we?.
     
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    So, anybody on those records gets compensation.They'd be pretty old to enjoy it.
    I gather that anybody who can produce a dozen or so birth certificates tracing a direct line to (one or two? of) those records also gets compensation. OK
    Anyone who wasn't properly documented in a plantation or transaction record (which might differ if the slave's name was changed by the next owner)
    that's survived the underground railroad, the civil war, the burning of Atlanta and a few plantations, plus 160 years, northward and westward migration, Hurricane Katrina and some other mishaps,
    is plum out of luck. OK, that saves some money.
    The people being inconvenienced are the claimants.
    (The same ones who have to jump through hoops and then not allowed to vote.)
     

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