Star Wars vs. Babylon 5 -- Round Two of the Scifi competition

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by CounslerCoffee, Apr 16, 2005.

?

Which would win?

  1. Star Wars

    10 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Babylon 5

    12 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. Starthane Xyzth returns occasionally... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,465
    You know, it IS a rather superfluous English letter.

    The relatively few words spelt with Q could be formed just as easily using KW. It would be more useful to have a single letter for the TH sound, like the Greeks do.
     
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  3. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    306
    For that matter, why "K" ? C is perfectly capable of covering for it. Isn't it?
     
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  5. Kron Maxwell's demon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    339
    Will Everyone Pleeeease Stick To The Topic ????????
     
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  7. Sagebrush Registered Member

    Messages:
    21
    [ B5 has nothing remotely comparable to a Death Star; and the Starfuries, or Minbari/Centauri/Narn spacefighters all appear less formidable than X-Wing or TIE fighters.

    One problem, though...the Vorlons have the capability of putting a planet-destroying death ray into a relatively fast ship only 3-4 miles across, while the Empire needs a slow moving, moon-sized battle station for its primary weapon.
     
  8. dis' guy Registered Member

    Messages:
    2
    In terms of fighters, Babylon 5 would win. Star furies can move in one direction while facing and firing in another. Were they used in the trench run Darth Vader would never have made it to the second movie. That said star furies are slower than star wars ships, so in order to win they'd need to use their superior maneuverability. Narn Fighters have armor on the scale of TIE defenders, mibari fighters are extremely destructive, and at the beginning of season three the Centauri were fighting a war on many fronts and somehow winning. If we include the shadows and vorlons then star wars fighters really get wasted.

    As for WARSHIPS: Earth alliance alone could take the empire. Omega class warships have two super-lasers and can launch dozens of fighters. plus they have 72 missle silos and 32 plasma cannons. earht has hundreds of them
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,492
    So can X-wings; they just never thought of it.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,492
    Star Wars would totally win. It's fantasy - there are no rules.
    B5 is hamstrung by the need to cowtow to actual physics.
     
    sideshowbob likes this.
  11. dis' guy Registered Member

    Messages:
    2
    not necessarily... have you seen the episodes with time travel... logic just flies out the window with physics over a volcano... then decide to work properly and fall into the Volcano and die, letting Babylon 5 time travel be the equivalent of the force: it fills in any plot holes.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,808
    Most movies never think of it. Spaceships always have thrusters that are only ever used to move them forwards. When they meet in space, they tend to park in a single plane, sometimes side by side. You hardly ever see ships meeting at a 90 degree angle, for instance. Mostly, the only time they move out of a narrow plane is in the middle of a chase sequence.
     
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  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,492
    That's because all those marks in those seats are too dumb to understand that spaceships are not airplanes. (Or so it would seem.)

    Less cynically: attention to detail in physics tends to distract from the central message - which is almost invariably character interaction. I'm pretty sure producers would be appalled if they witnessed their audiences examining the vectors and momentum changes when they should be watching the main characters.

    That kind of trick is better served when the weirdness of a scenario is important to the story. "Look how they park their vehicles. That's makes me uncomfortable about them."

    Sad but true - even us technophiles are still tugged more by our feelings for characters than for spaceships.

    Of course, B5 did break that spell.
     
  14. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Babylon 5 had the First Ones . Fascinating concept and really a reasonable truth . A life form that is the first intellect of the Universe ( SW never had that concept) .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,808
    I'm currently, belatedly, working my way through the 2005-9 series of Battlestar Galactica. It handles spaceship movement more realistically, in terms of the physics.

    In general, it's a very good series. Some of the character stuff is a bit implausible, due to limitations on the size of the cast, I guess. The same few key characters end up being assigned all kinds of different roles, for which they often aren't really qualified (or for which their assignment would be inappropriate or impractical for other reasons). Nevertheless, the series does grapple with a lot of ethical questions, and a few practical ones. The base level of realism is pretty good, on the whole, compared to a lot of sci-fi TV and movies (which are more often closer to fantasy).
     
  16. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    A series of Humans againist robots , robots againist Humans .

    That's my take on the series .
     
  17. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,882
    I found it interesting to begin with, and then just increasingly depressing and bleak. There was just no enjoyment in the series. It was well produced and reasonably well acted, but just depressing that it eventually turned me off.
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,808
    The setup is inherently depressing and bleak: humanity is all but wiped out by an attack by AI that it created, leaving only 40000 or so survivors to look for a semi-mythical ancient homeland that they may or may not be able to locate, while being chased and hounded by the AIs, most of whom want to wipe out survivors.

    A lot of the interest, for me, is in how the small group of survivors deal with practical and moral problems that arise in their flight from, and war against, the AI menace, as well as in how they deal with moral issues that arise among their own ranks. The series covers a lot of interesting ground. To mention just a few issues that are touched on, there are:
    • the question of the extent to to which people who are clearly traitors ought to be entitled to fair treatment, human rights, a fair trial etc.
    • the extent to which political and administrative power should be transfered to or shared with the military in times of existential crisis.
    • the question of what gives an entity moral rights, and the related question of what makes something a "person" with value.
    • whether torture is ever acceptable, and in what circumstances.
    • the abortion debate.
    • how best to respond to the existence of a "black market" economy.
    • whether faith can be a reliable path to knowledge.
    • what to do with home-grown "collaborators" and/or terrorists.
    • the tension between "identity" and demonstrable actions, as a guide to moral judgment of others, especially when it comes to stereotyping.
    • the ways in which personal relationships can impede or enhance political relationships.
     
  19. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,882
    Of course the setup is inherently depressing and bleak, but that doesn't mean that the series itself has to be so depressing and bleak... across all four series. To me a series should be something that is enjoyable to watch - and being depressing and bleak almost without exception is not something that promotes continued viewing for me. Yeah, the production values were pretty good, but it's like the writers deliberately chose to take a subject matter and to explore it in the most depressing way as possible. No humour, no light relief. It's like the series itself suffered from depression and would have benefitted from seeing a therapist to help see the positives.
    Basically, just because things are bleak does not mean that humour need be absent from the writing. The writers of BSG simply seem to have refused to allow anyone to have any fun, or to address an issue with any levity at all. I admire them for sticking to that, as that was clearly what they wanted to achieve, but it was a turn-off for me. You can come up with all the great issues you want to explore, but if you're not in the mood to be depressed for an hour at a time (or longer if binge-watching) then you're possibly not going to sit through what the writers have to say on the matter.
    But no doubt it's a good series... if you can cope with it being so depressing.
     
  20. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Moving On to Babylon5 . Not depressing to myself .
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,904
    Well, heck, any ship at all can destroy another ship in Star Wars by just jumping into hyperspace right in front of another ship while pointed at it. Any garbage carrier with a droid pilot could have destroyed either Death Star at any time.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,492
    Yep. There's a Law in Science Fiction about that, whose name I cannot recall.

    The destructive power of spaceship is directly proportional to its propulsive power.

    As soon as you allow a single-ship to have a hyperdrive (and allow hyperdrive to operate in normal space) you have inevitably invented the hyperdrive torpedo. That's a step you can't back away from.
     
    river likes this.
  23. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Yet Babylon 5 was far more , far more than just fire power . Anybody that has watched the series knows this .

    Babylon 5 is about finding our own way . Both the Vorlons and the Shadows were kick out of our space . The first one lead them both away from us into space . We are now on our own , Humanity .
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021

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