The Impeachment of President Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Beaconator Registered Senior Member

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    871
    If I had been sued as many times as our current President... For the reasons he has been... I would believe the gov doesn't work as it supposedly should.

    And I have been strung up naked in a jail cell against my own will. After being struck in the head.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    ok
    question:
    First, let us assume that the Bidens are innocent of any corruption in Ukraine.
    then
    If Trump requesting an investigation of the Bidens in Ukraine would give him an advantage in the coming election, does that not presuppose that the investigation would find something indicating corruption by Biden?
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    No, it does not. For those paying attention, Trump didn't necessarily expect the investigation to find anything, which is why so much attention was given to the idea of announcing an investigation.

    We actually saw that presentation, yesterday, including a Ukranian draft statement and State's suggested changes.

    The idea that you're asking a question, today, that misses this point does not at all surprise me; it's a common rhetorical trope in conservative political argument that we've endured for years.

    †​

    Perhaps it works better to consider it this way: In asking Ukraine to "do us a favor, though", part of what Donald Trump wanted was that the president of an allied nation should betray himself to promote a debunked conspiracy theory to aid and comfort that nation's immediate and engaged enemy as a precondition to receiving Congressionally-approved security assistance in that very conflict.

    The favor Donald Trump wanted including nothing less than the Ukranian President Zelensky to commit treason.

    It's easy to think of him going after Hillary Clinton in the bit about the server, but the purpose of that was also to promote Russian prestige and pretense.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    And, once again again, we have a presumption of corruption in the world's political elite?

    Why is this considered the norm?
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    The economic growth was higher in the 90's until it took a dive right before Obama was elected, then it took off again. So, under Clinton and Obama, both Democrats, is where you'll find economic growth. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

    Here again, the unemployment rate was rising (under Republicans) right up until Obama was elected, and then it started falling. Again, sorry, bubble, burst.

    https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

    Could go on from here bursting your bubble, but I think this is already a telling story regarding your claims.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,117
    What does that even mean?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. It presupposes that Trump wanted to win by any means possible, whether legal or not.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Opinion:
    Trump was using the "where there is smoke there is fire" superstitions of his support base to further his political agenda.
    He knows that all he has to do is generate the "smoke" and his supporters and all conspiracy theorist will imagine the fire.

    It is a simple trick of a fraudster used to guile people into a belief system that is required to further a nefarious end.
    By coercing the Ukrainian president in to announcing a corruption inquiry he would achieve his ambition to create that "smoke".

    Notes: None of what I have posted above is to be considered as fact or a claim as it is merely a personal assessment based on observation.
    For those who continuously seek to distort my posts, I repeat, none of the above is to be considered as fact or a claim and is merely a a personal assessment based on personal observation.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    16,919
    Justice is, actually, a function of our government. And given the massive sums Trump has paid to settle lawsuits - and to keep his illicit activities quiet - and to pay fines for judgments against him - there's no doubt that government is working as it should when it comes to enforcing our laws.
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    amen
     
  14. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    1,012
    These 90's?
    The U.S. is officially in its longest expansion, breaking the record of 120 months of economic growth from March 1991 to March 2001, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/this-is-now-the-longest-us-economic-expansion-in-history.html
    "Started falling" is not the lowest since 1969:
    The unemployment rate fell to 3.6 percent, the Labor Department said Friday, the lowest since 1969.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...april-unemployment-fell-percent-lowest-since/

    Seems it's your bubble. You have addressed neither, although I'm sure you think your arm-waving about short-term trends did.
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    My sources are from THE official sources which you probably didn't even bother looking at, your sources are from the media. Nice try arm waving there, but no cigar.
     
  16. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, that took you a long time to justify.
     
  17. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! You still don't see how your response fails to address what I wrote. Hint, you tried to refute long-term claims with relatively short-term data. That's as irrelevant as trying to refute climate change with weather.
     
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    The data I provided refutes what you wrote. Hint, you tried to lie about Trump's accomplishments, but failed miserably when the data was put in front of you and are now trying to wriggle out of it, just like Trump tries to do. Doesn't work that way, sorry.
     
  19. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    1,012
    No, it sadly doesn't. You tried to refute "longer" with "higher", which obviously are not the same thing. So you completely failed to address that claim, and still don't seem to realize it.
    And expanding the graph range of your own source verifies that unemployment is the lowest it's been since 1969. That's your own source verifying my claim.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    U3 or U5 or U6 or........?
     
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Soooooooo...

    In a nutshell -this by itself- could be the only info needed in deciding "Yeah" or "Nay" on impeachment and the only reason it's not around yet is because the dude wanted a better public spectacle for promoting his book?

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-01-27-20/index.html

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  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,117
    You should probably pay attention to the posts you're responding to.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    We can easily put up your claim which you conveniently forgot...

    "Yet the economy took off, with the longest period of economic growth in all of US history, record low unemployment, and historically low minority unemployment, just by Republicans taking over."

    You were responding to the era of Bush/Clinton/Obama, so I put up the data for that period of time which clearly showed the economic growth falling and unemployment rising, "just by Republicans taking over." So yes, the data does refute your claim.

    Yes, as a result of Democrats in power, not Republicans. Sorry you feel the need to lie through your teeth and ignore the facts, but that's what Trump and his supporters do.
     

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