Thou Shalt Not Kill

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Fork, May 7, 2013.

  1. Fork Banned Banned

    It is not God's will.
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Which God? Because Tezcatlipoca loved his sacrifices.
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  5. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Then why does It do so much of it.
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  7. Fork Banned Banned

    The One and Only.
  8. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Its a hard one to put into words, as humans rationalise whats right and wrong. Who knows.

    All i know is i have never done anything to anyone, but lots of the population does. So others see it differently.

    Like animal and human sacrifice, humans rationalised it as they thought it was a means to an end, and ended up rationalising it that its gods will.

    Look at todays story and the bloke eating someone elses heart. That sums up how humans rationalise the world.

    I rationalise the world that its wrong, while others probably sacrifice and eat and think its right.

    Society needs laws to function as a group. Are these laws something god gave us? Who knows.
  9. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    I guess God forgot to give that memo to Joshua at the battle of Jericho. Oops...
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    How do you know God's will?
  11. arauca Banned Banned

    The walls come down , but we don't know if God told them to kill, that is man's position to kill or not to kill. At the end the Israelite s lived with the Canaanites
  12. Upstate8987 Registered Member

    lol there is no god. Please, just accept it.
  13. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Kill what? Animals for food? Humans that are trying to kill you? Defending yourself is something we all should do.
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Numbers 31:

    "Moses was angry with the officers of the army, with the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from the battle. And Moses said to them: “Have you kept all the women alive? Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the Lord in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately."
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Maybe he's not talking about that God.
  16. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Actually a much better translation is 'thou shall not commit murder'. There is plenty of killing in the bible, murder is the no-no.
  17. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    The putative author of the proscription against killing was neither of those. "He" (Yahweh) is alternately "they" (Elohim). That Jewish monotheism evolved from an earlier polytheism is evident from the statement In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the Earth. I retained the King James idiom in this. A better translation is "Long ago the gods made the sky and the ground." But regardless how you parse it, their Elohim is "gods", not "God".

    The evolution into monotheism was a seminal event in the founding of modern Judeo-Christian and Islamic tradition. It was enhanced in the early Christian era by the splintering of God into a Trinity. It's no coincidence that the Caesars of Rome had recently invented the notion of a Triumvirate. This kept alive the appeal to the more ubiquitous polytheism of the Levant. After all, three Gods (or a three-headed God) are better than one.

    Other evidence of the polytheism of the proto-Jewish cult, and continuing in other forms thereafter, includes a vase with an inscription to "Yahweh and his Asherah", as well as of the widespread worship of Asherah as the Queen or Heaven, in the form of thousands of figurines uncovered in excavations of ancient sites in modern Israel. Syncretism between Greek, Persian, Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian and (earlier) Ugaritic and (later) Roman traditions brought to Judaism a reinvention of God to include a Son of God (an idea borrowed from most all of those cults) who drank from the bitter cup (the Greek Socrates, and the passion of his execution for belief in one God) at the hour of his death, surround by his 12 followers (Persian-Roman Mithra, the Sun, followed by the zodiac. They apparently believed Mithra was crucified after a last supper with the 12, and commemorated this with ritual meals, evidenced by sites left behind in the Roman catacombs, which are associated with the origins of the Mass. The death of the Sun at the winter solstice only to rise again on the 3rd day (Dec 25) is probably borrowed from Mithraism. It's no wonder then, that the Christian version also shifted the relationship of the Queen of Heaven away from the less relevant role as wife and co-ruler to mother, giving them the fantastic problem in wedding Yahweh to Mary metaphysically, in order to create Jesus. This may also tell us that they authors of this tale were aware of the Immaculate Conception of gods as far away as India.

    There never was a One and Only, regardless of how popular the notion is - and has been for centuries. That's just the innovation of syncretism, a consequence of the captivity of Isrealites in Babylon, the Greek incursion into Persia and the Levant, and the experience under the Roman triumvirate, especially the ca. 69 AD destruction of the Temple and the mass crucifixions of Zealots. Obviously the One and Only was a turning point in the evolution of Judaism, but it's a relatively late innovation. This is why there are two versions of the Israelite creation myth in Genesis, one by the gods Elohim, and a second one by the singular Yahweh. The story was being amended, or preserved for both cults, when apparently a subsequent rule against further alterations locked it in place.

    "Though shalt not kill" is preceded in the history of law by the familiar "an eye for and eye" Code of Hammurabi, the demigod king of ancient Babylon, another syncretic import, as well as the story of a man named Utnapishtim who was saved from the flood by being warned to build a boat and stock it with animals, a saga known as the Gilgamesh Epic. The code of Hammurabi is practically as detailed as a modern criminal code, reserving a particular punishment for each of hundreds of different injustices, although they were quite cruel.

    And the list goes on. Among all of the world's religions, Judaism, and the cults that stemmed from it, carries one of the most diversified collection of ideas melded from the many cultures springing up all around them for many centuries. Canaanites were closely related to Phoenicians, world travelers and merchants, who obviously had a chance to learn a lot of the myths and lore of the entire ancient wold of the Levant and many a distant Mediterranean harbor.

    One of Many is a better characterization than One and Only.
    Cthulhudream likes this.

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