Was there a beginning?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by quantum_wave, May 14, 2022.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    Plain silly statement. Physics operated forming the Universe for billions of years before we came along

    All we did / have done is give physics a label

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    Physics is not a god false or otherwise

    Physics is a PROCESS not equated to god

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Dicart Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    This is not what Physic is.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
  8. Dicart Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    You confuse between the discipline physics and reality (what we also call "nature").
    Reality is not a discipline.
    Physic is a discipline and the goal of physics is to study reality.

    Now, you have see i have writen "the goal of physic".
    You know we can write this sentence, and it is a correct sentence.
    But you can not use this sentence to do the deduction that physic is something stand-alone who has a goal.
    It is not a autonomous entity. It is not even an entity.

    Same with your sentence : "Is a statement of what physics does."
    You can write this sentence and normal people understand what is meant.
    But you can not say: This sentence is correct (yes it is), so i can make the deduction that physics, like an entity, can do anything.

    This is true with every sentence.
    You can not do any deduction from a sentence.
    This is what science say and therefore it is why physics is a natural science, and even if you can consider you can learn something from a sentence (like a mathematic formula) this is only a possibility, not an obligation : Within a natural science (science of reality) you have to do the real experience to confirm something.

    A sentence is the result of the expression of human understanding of the real, it is not the real by itself.
    Same with physics, it is the result of the expression of human understanding of the real

    Now, who or what created the real ?
    Thats the question (for the physics we know who created it and we know that modern physic now also include chemistry, biology etc, because it is now a fundamental discipline)

    Yourself state that the real created the real ?
    Or what ?
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    All I got from the above is jibber jibber jibber jibber jibber jibber

    Cut down the jibber jibber and give Readers Digest version please

    See you can do Readers Digest version

    Not a who - physics created what you see around you (reality)

    After the bit i just quoted above you slipped back into jibber jibber

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. Dicart Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    You confuse physics and reality.

    It is very simple to clarify :
    First we used philosophy.
    Then we used science.
    Within science we have physics, chemestry, geology, biology and so on.
    Why dont you say : "Not a who - geology created what you see around you (reality)" ?

    How could the reality exists before the physics discipline was invented ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    Because it didn't

    Physics was not invented. Its working was observed and labelled

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. Dicart Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    So you just confuse physics and reality.
     
  13. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,609
    What?? You literally confused reality with physics in your previous post when you said:
     
  14. Dicart Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    Very funny.

    It was not my claim, it was the logical conclusion every one could do, depending on Michael 345 statements.
    Therefore i asked him : "How could the reality exists before the physics discipline was invented ?"
    This question is intended to help him to understand his error.
    And normaly he should understand that HE is doing some illogic reasoning.

    Is it also clear for you now ?
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    I'm not sure if this member Dicart is a troll or not

    Ask weird questions. For the moment I am not putting on Iggy and also not going to answer any more stupid questions

    Dueling questions is not debate

    Cheers

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,124
    He was parroting Michael - i.e. proof by contradiction.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,972
    Asking "was there a beginning" has no meaning. The Universe has always existed in one form or another, IMO, almost by definition.

    It's like asking, "have I always been here". As far as I can remember, I've always been here. From my perspective, asking what was here before me has no meaning in my world (let's assume I am the Universe).

    The Big Bang phase change occurred 13 billion years ago. Before that we haven't a clue but it could have occurred due to the ending of another Universe. So does the Universe have a beginning or has it always been here? They answer could be both depending on your definitions.

    The idea of a Creator is nonsense, clearly manmade, and doesn't answer the question at all as has been pointed out many times. If you can't picture something from nothing then you shouldn't be able to picture a Creator from nothing.

    I don't believe in infinity and the multiple versions of yourself, somewhere, in some other world either. Time had a start at some point. In our case, 13 billion years ago. We don't know how much "time" (if any) there was before that. Again, we don't know. That's not to say that there wasn't something before that but we just don't know. Like everything, the reason there is no answer to these questions is because of the many ways you could define "time", "before", "Universe", "something", etc.

    If we don't know, it's ridiculous to think that the answer was infinity of time. Infinity, and the strange conclusions you could draw from that, is just a mathematical construct that has no place in reality, IMO, in the way it has been used.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
  18. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,609
    Thanks, I didn't read enough of the thread to see that. As Emily Litella would say, "Oh...never mind".
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,679
    I put this to Origin

    I'm not sure if this member Dicart is a troll or not

    Ask weird questions. For the moment I am not putting on Iggy and also not going to answer any more stupid questions

    Dueling questions is not debate

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,073
    Life has always been, and life is the miracle of one infinity, like God in the endless universe of angels and people.
     
  21. I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E Registered Member

    Messages:
    11
    Well the big bang had to happen in something.

    It's more like a Big Oven and all the matter is like a banana nut loaf.

    The oven is infinite, always has been always will be.

    We just aren't done yet...
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,124
    No it didn't have to.

    The Big Bang was not an expansion in space; it was an expansion of space.
     
  23. I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E Registered Member

    Messages:
    11
    But there's no such thing as nothing, is that what they're saying was outside the singularity before the big bang?

    I guess that would mean that dark matter and space itself is being created at the particle horizon?

    The CMB/Particle Horizon/Big Bang problem is real.

    / it just seem more plausible that empty space (the dark matter) is infinite because we can pretty much be sure if we made it to the particle horizon that the universe beyond would look pretty much exactly how we see it now.

    Makes more sense that all the matter (stuff of the universe) was bound by gravity to form a big bang inside this eternal void.

    If we view the universe on our best maps we have now we can see all the galaxies are bound together by cosmic filaments of plasma.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2022

Share This Page