What Do People Know About What They Pretend to Discuss?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Tiassa, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I would put it stronger at deliberately sneaky

    1½ up from tricky

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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Only if have or suspect have the virus

    Fairly useless against catching it

    But that's a different discussion for the other thread

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Michael, you do have a scientific mind....

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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Correct and no argument. At least we finally drag that out of you.
    Perhaps if you weren't so apparently secretive and obscure about where you are actually coming from? Obviously also I'm not the first to comment on this apparent secretive, evasive style of yours.
    This.....
    In other words, your apparent evasive style [imo] is not affecting the little children that maybe watching/reading this.

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    It's a fact by any reasonable definition of the word, and despite the fact that not everyone will accept it as fact....you know, the trolls, those with religious/ID baggage etc.
    It still remains fact.
    I give back what I receive Jan, and again, I'm not the first to comment on your tricky evasive style......Lighten up? Not at all. I just care somewhat for the little children that may fall for your "tricky style"
    What's wrong with that? That's science, that's the scientific methodology. Evidence is required to validate your deity, whoever that deity is.
    And obviously while even science as yet does not know the origin of everything, there is some interesting speculation, concerning the quantum foam being as close to nothing as is possible to get, and effectively nothing...check out Professor Lawrence Krauss.
    In the meantime some wise words from the greatest educator of our time in my opinion of course!

    No, its the way science works and part of the scientific methodology...and what many have been asking you for over 44 pages now.
    I prefer the challenge of understanding the evidence we have for the BB, and how the universe evolved, I prefer the awesome wonder of the evidence that the observable universe we occupy is filled with an uncountable number of planets and stars, many billions of galaxies over an expanse of around 94 billionL/years diameter, I prefer the awe and mystery as to what lies beyond that expanse, I prefer the incredible insight of Darwinism and the theory of evolution of life.
    I prefer all that to making up and/or accepting a myth just because some things are beyond our understanding at this time.
    Worth noting also Jan, when contemplating the wonders and awe of the universe, that if it wasn't that way, we probably would not have evolved to enjoy it. We call it "The Anthropic Principal"
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    No no no! Paddoboboy.
    You made an accusation.
    Please show where I have invented new terms for these word.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The accusation stands. But as I have said, it is over 44 pages, and as others have also inferred.
    take it easy ol son.
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    On a scale of 1 to ?.
    It seems the op could allow it as a demonstration that some folk know about what they pretend to discuss.
    Alex
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    My 3 neurone brain, Huey, Dewey and Louie, thank you for your compliment

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    1 to 10 sneaky being 4

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  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you believe God has an infinite past?

    What I think is not required in determining what you believe.

    I am inclined to believe you.

    I thought you may think, being a read between the lines guy, that I was being sarcastic...but in truth I was not..I planned to list wars with religion at their center and I realised to do so is not as easy as one could think ....and I could not think of a single one that did not require me to review what I knew so as not to make a false or unsupported claim and I did not feel like looking up religious wars and making a list...my statement was certainly without sarcasm when I made it, and I certainly was more interested in avoiding sidecracking you.

    However clearly either of us could goggle "religious wars" and find a couple I expect. Wars and the reasons that they are fought are often complex and I expect some wars on the face of things may appear religious but we find it boils down to money and power and religion is invoked merely to motivate the gullible masses.

    The history I present is clear and I reject that one can form a particular view really.

    Because my simple proposition somewhat represents what the science tells us moreover it represents a scientific theory or model that is the best we have...if you wish to present a better scientific model that is available for you to do. I note that there are some "scientists" working on an ID model but as yet all recognise their model is unable to replace the current model that traces the appearance of and evolution of the various species.
    Until the ID model replaces the current model it can not be taught in schools indicating it's lack of establishment and indeed validity.
    Nevertheless you may hold ID as your view.

    I did have some books which I lost in Bush fires many years ago that would enable me to identify the specifics but for the present I don't feel like researching it all again..not something that one could do in a casual approach to reference specifics that I find compelling.

    The difficulty for ID is in the detail, perhaps in providing an explanation of how all species appeared more or less at once.

    I expect you believe, given your point about the apparent finding of soft tissue that the world is much younger than science provides in its time scale for the Earth.

    Once religions could make unsupported claims but in the age of science the necessity to back up claims is now with us. Unfortunately religion can not meet the requirements of science and so "Dawinism" rules supreme.
    Alex
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'll bet my balls he'll come back with some weird reasoning, and words to the effect, "But Alex, that is the definition of god,an omnipotent, all powerful infinite being, existing apart from the universe....blah blah blah.....and he'll expect you to accept that this is evidence for god.

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the fact that one can actually look up "religious wars" speaks volumes in and of itself. I tried to google scientific wars and came up with this:
    Science wars
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars

    Not quite as bloody as the Crusades.
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I am not sure that I would like to win against your proposition as the prospect of collecting my hypothetical winnings does not appeal.

    I find it fascinating a theist could reject an eternal universe yet accept the unsupported proposition that an entity could exist that is eternal.

    I find it curious that so much confidence is placed in their various holy books.

    One could think that as holy books are written under Devine influence we could expect infallibility to be the norm rather than what we find by way of glaring mistakes or misunderstanding.

    The hints through out the Bible that the Earth is flat I suppose is just a mere triffle to be overlooked and happily ignored by theists...well some of them. One wonders just how many flatearthers could be in the US given some 20% are fundamentalists taking a literal interpretation. That 20% apparently believe in Adam and Eve. Look at that rocket guy, now deceased, who funded his rocketry via Christian fundamentalists helping him to prove the Earth is flat like it said in the Bible.
    To hold up say the Bible as a perfect standard for morality is rather odd when even a dedicated believer will reject what is advocated therein as what is demanded in the killing of various sinners...you know unruly children for example.

    Killing is advocated for a wide variety of sins etc yet we as a society reject capital punishment, in Australia at least, but even elsewhere I doubt anyone kills the neighbour they find gathering sticks on the Sabbath.

    I would think a good edit could produce a credible book worthy of universal respect.

    Imagine a review of say a simple cook book how the critics would jump on just one error if found and how it's sales would be zero.

    How long could we expect a medical text book to remain authority if it contained just one mistake. And perhaps it is this odd standard of ignoring the bad bits whilst declaring a Devine inspiration that is a glaring example of the casual approach to reason that you could think would have a rational person reject the book entirely. I could not have confidence in a cook book that suggested mercury to be a fine ingredient for a dish just as I could have no confidence in a book that calls upon me to kill my neighbour on a declared sacred day if I find him gathering sticks.

    Alex
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Funny I did not think of them...I think England had at least one religious war.

    However religious wars form a small minority according to this guy, .wears his collar backwards which means he can be trusted. But he seems a nice chap and heck I want to believe him.
    Jan will like this guy.
    I thought it fair to show I can bat for either side now that I am neither a theists or an atheist....what could you call someone like me..realist..rationalist..scientistlist.
    Check the video

    Alex
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You cannot back up your accusation, because it is false.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What religion is he talking about?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Islam

    and Apostasy in Islam is punishable by death.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

    and for a few more nice bloody religious conflicts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_war

    What our dear Father Mike Schmitz doesn't say is that while there have been more wars for other reasons, religious wars have taken more lives than the wars for all other causes combined.
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Death_toll_of_Christianity

    In my book that counts. Apologetics never want to admit the atrocities committed in the name of God.

    I have heard of many causes for war, but I have never heard of a war in the cause of "No God".
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 3:32 AM
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The idea of the infinite, can be used to describe God.
    Nevertheless it is polite to respond to a question, in a discussion. But never mind.
    I asked if thought wars were due to religion.
    You seem to think that ancients were ignorant, and didn’t know where the sun went at night.
    Why do you think that?
    You believe what some scientists tell you.
    Therefore you don’t know that it is a fact.
    Okay.
    I'm not a scientist.
    ID is kicking darwinism ass right now.
    ID obviously accepts evolution.
    So the elephant in the room is basically one type of animal, turning into a completely different type of animal. That is a belief, as you so rightly admitted.
    How kind of you!

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    Same for darwinism.
    I'm not like you, in the sense that I can choose what to believe.
    But I do believe that soft tissue has been found.
    And I know it is a problem for darwinists.
    But creating problems for darwinists is not a new thing.
    Who's us?
    You're right though. Darwinism does rule supreme, in this topsy turvy world.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You're looking at it all wrong Alex.
    God is eternal from our perspective.
    But God cannot be God, by definition, if He is not affected by time.
    Does that make sense to you?
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    12,894
    The shape of the earth is of no real interest to me.
    I do believe it is a globe though.
    Why is it of interest to you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 4:10 AM
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    He excluded Islam I recall.
    Never say never but it certainly seems they just do not seem to ever mention any negative aspect of religion.
    They live in a make believe world, believe in a make believe future and believe in ...why go on I will keep it short.

    Alex
     
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Lol!!!

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