Why shouldn't a ten year old be allowed to drive?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by mordea, Apr 26, 2010.

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  1. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    People like McGYver who live in the woods and such can obtain a licence 1 year earlier if it is needed for everyday living, like driving to the school because no schoolbus would go into the woods and such. That is the hardship licence...

    live in the woods....:roflmao::xctd::roflmao:
     
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  3. mordea Registered Senior Member

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    Ahh, I see. So you are essentially justifying discrimination based on age because we discriminate based on age. Circular logic, anyone?

    I've already addressed this by asking you whether adults ever crash planes, and pointing out that lack of experience (the girl in your scenario was still in training) is a major risk factor for accidents. You never addressed this. I wonder why not?

    Differences in brain wiring isn't proof beyond all reasonable doubt that all 10 year olds lack the competence to drive a car. There are also differences in brain wiring between males and females, adults and the elderly. Neurology is still a very new science with a lot of unknowns. You can't make good predictions from a reductionist approach.

    Thank you. My argument is that we should grant privileges such as a car license based on *merit*, not age. Even if statistically speaking, 10 year olds are more likely than adults to not be competent to drive, that doesn't mean we should summarily deny all 10 year olds the privilege. We have far more objective means of determining competence (ie. the drive test) than age.
     
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  5. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    So how does one determine the merit of a 10 year old? Children are not little adults. They are children. Discounting the fact the average 10 year old is only 4 feet tall, and would have difficultly operating a motor vehicle, they lack the judgment skills required to operate a potentially deadly device. Do you want to share the road with 4th graders?

    One my best friends has a 10 year old. For his birthday, they made pizzas and he was free to choose any toppings he wanted. Bananas and pickles were 2 of the things he chose. He took one bite, and refused to eat anymore. He lacked the judgment skills to even know what the topping combination would taste like, or if he would even like it.

    Let me guess...you don't have kids?
     
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  7. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    Bananas and pickles..


    Well if the 10 yo was pregnant.. they might of liked it.. should 10 yo get preggie
     
  8. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Because while some ten year olds could manage to pass the test, etc., they aren't really as aware as adults of the gravity of the situation. Ten years olds could pass rather hard tests in bicycle riding, but notice how, in fact, many of them bicycle ride when they are goofing around. They do this in ways that few adults do, say on the sidewalks of a city.

    They are still learning by overdoing with their bodies. They flail, they test boundaries, they cross boundaries. Which is all to the good as far as learning and their flexible, quick recovering bodies do fairly well with this.

    But ten year olds on the highway. That would scare me as much as 80 year olds on the highways (scare me now). But for different reasons.
     
  9. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    ...it makes sense. Hey, for the record, very old people shouldn't be able to drive either.

    You "forgot" to answer where you draw the line between a brand new baby's right to drive and a 10 year old. Somewhere in between there has to be an age where we don't allow them to do dangerous activities....

    Driving isn't a right, it is a priviledge. Kids haven't earned that priviledge yet....

    What was the insurance quote on the 10 year old when you called Geico???

    P.S.: If you want to fight age discrimination, bring up drinking age (or smoking), after all with drinking they mostly hurt themselves instead of others.
     
  10. mordea Registered Senior Member

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    It's also circular logic. ie. you are making a logically fallicious argument.

    So you want to discriminate against the elderly as well? Strange, I thought they would have 'maturity' in abundance.

    I've answered it implicitly. I suggest you go back and read what I post, before actually responding to me.

    I've acknowledged this. I suggest you go back and read what I post, before actually responding to me.

    So now you're saying that the privilege to drive is 'earned'? But you previously stated that this privilege should be denied on age alone, rather than merit. Huh? Can you please read what you type *before* posting?

    By the way, you *still* haven't answered my question: Has an adult ever crashed a plane?
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It's just a bad idea

    Um ... okay, try this. In the spirit of bananas and pickles, of course.

    My daughter is seven. And she's pretty smart, I think. But once in a while, she just walks up to me and hits me. Punches me. Clocks me with a stick, drills me with a ball. There's nothing malicious about it. She's just caught up in what she's doing.

    And here's the thing: It's expected behavior.

    Right, all sorts of considerations about that, but they're beside the point for the moment.

    What I'm getting at is that acutely irrational and spontaneous behavior is an expected part of her conduct in a way adults are supposed to learn to suppress.

    Additionally, as any parent at this subforum will attest, children at age seven, or ten, and even twelve or thirteen, are nearly multivalent in their stream of consciousness; their attention can change focus drastically, quite literally, in mid-sentence. And it happens a lot.

    No. I'm not putting a thirty-five hundred pound car in her independent control. Not now, not at ten; not a day before the law says I can, and I think, all things considered, the law probably says go too soon.

    I don't want my daughter to have that kind of mortal responsibility in her hands at age ten. I have not prepared her psyche for that. Very few parents have prepared their children's psyches for that. Even those who take their kids hunting aren't putting such a sustained burden on their consciences.

    I also think we would be turning Darwin in his grave, so to speak. What trends would having children driving cars bring to natural selection?
     
  12. soullust Registered Senior Member

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    That comment i made about being short was more sarcasm.


    But no there Probally are ten year olds that are more mature then 30 year olds, but i am sure a human being that is in elementary, and probally just barely learned how to tell the time let alone be behind a ton of metal going 100 km an hour down the highway is not and never would be a good thing, there minds in most cases are just too imaginative, and would wander too much (my opinion).

    But if any of the states ever did allow 10 year olds to get there license please let me know which one so i can avoid there streets at all cost.
     
  13. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Circular logic never happened to me.

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    Sure. You never drove in Florida I take. You also don't know much about biology...

    I am not just saying, it is a FACT. You earn it by passing the age of 16 and also passing an exam. Once on the road you earn it by following the rules. You break them too often, you lose your driving privilege. Fucking DUH!

    Not that I recall....

    P.S.: I think posting on this site should be a privilege too, and people posting stupid threads should have their privilege revoked.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  14. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    Your quote, and the point you were making with it, made specific reference to the underdeveloped status of the teenage brain. I'm not disagreeing with that, despite being 17 myself, but if teenagers are allowed to take their test what's the problem for someone younger?
     
  15. draqon Banned Banned

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    live in the mountains, rather.
     
  16. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Are you just trying to be argumentative, or just stupid? With the elderly, maturity is not the issue....it's physical and mental ability. Reaction time, and the ability to make timely decisions affect driving skills. There is no law in Texas that revokes driving privileges at a certain age. This is usually decided by the family, or by the state if the individual cannot pass their driving test or has numerous traffic incidents. Some drive until they are 100, others until only 70.

    Since I seem to be the story man in this thread....My father is 86. His physical and mental health have really gone downhill in the last few years. This will most likely be the last year he is allowed to drive. He has difficulty judging distances, particularly on the right side of the car, and regularly has near misses with parked cars on that side of the car. When turning left against oncoming traffic, he has difficulty judging the distance between the cars, and waits until all traffic has passed (to the frustration of the cars behind him) before turning. My mother no longer allows him to drive on the freeway. It's not maturity that's the issue, it's mental and physical acuity.
     
  17. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Because younger kids have even less ability to make rational decisions and have even less judgment skills. (see pickles and bananas) I had the physical ability to pass my driving test at 15, and the physical ability to drive. However, I lacked the judgment skills to know that driving a 20 year old pickup truck, with 2 inches of "play" in the steering wheel at speeds of over 100 mph was a really really bad idea. This lack of judgment could have very well cost me or others their lives....and that's what it all boils down to, protecting others lives on the roads.
     
  18. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    I'm old enough to drive, I can physically drive and I have been driving off-road (around my fields) since the age of about 12. The thing is, if I were to take my test tomorrow, I would fail miserably.

    That's the point made in the OP that no-one seems to paying attention to. If a 10 year-old could prove to an instructor that they are a competent driver, why should the fact that they are so young make any difference?

    And what of elderly drivers?
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Driving off road is hardly the same as taking part in traffic.
     
  20. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    The other thing what hasn't been brought up yet:

    What parents would let their 10 year old go anywhere alone with their car?? If the parents are there, there is no need for the kid to drive, and without parents the average 10 year old is not allowed to go far anyway, what would require a car.

    Bottomline, there is no need for any 10 year old to drive. (with a rare exception of the wood people where no schoolbus dares to go)
     
  21. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Because they don't have the maturity. Show me one who does and I'll make an exception, but they're about as common as blue tigers.

    And we're not talking teenagers here. We're not talking simple impulse control. Not 'Ok, now however much you want an adrenaline rush, don't step on the accelerator like it's someone's face. Just don't do it.' A teen can force themselves to be sensible. They can understand the idea of 'crash' and 'death'.

    Ten year olds do things for random reasons out of the blue. My niece at 13, let ALONE ten, used to suddenly shout 'poo' and 'diarrhea' in public. She'd randomly decide to kick and punch me. Now translate that to a kid in a car.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  22. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    That's exactly why I would fail my driving test if I were to take it tomorrow.
    You see, Mac was making the point that just because a ten year-old has the ability to drive, it doesn't mean that they won't be terrible at it. My reply was that a thorough test of practical and theoretical driving ability would rule this out.

    Sure, but are irrational and sudden reactions solely the province of children? There are plenty of underage children who, given tuition, would make perfectly competent drivers. Those who couldn't handle it could be ruled out.
     
  23. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    This is true. There are people well into adulthood who are plenty irrational and explosive. Good point.
     
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